The Kevin Pietersen-Paul Hayward Interview

Cameramen at work

My, there’s a lot to discuss! Kevin Pietersen has finally broken his silence and the fallout will be biblical in proportions. We haven’t seen the book yet – Tregaskis has tracked down a copy and will send over a review shortly – but for now let’s just discuss what’s currently in the public domain. There’s plenty to get our teeth into.

Over the days and weeks to come we’ll try and unpick exactly what all the new info means, both on the micro level of Pietersen’s own story and the macro of English cricket at large.

But we’ll start simply by analysing the interview with Paul Hayward in the Daily Telegraph last night.

What’s he saying which is new and how does it fit into the previously standard narrative? What’s of most significance and how will his enemies respond?

Summary

What’s remarkable is how closely his views align with everything people like us have been saying for months. Flower and the ECB had in it for him ever since losing the captaincy. He was brutally ostracised and became the victim of vicious double standards. The ECB systematically leaked to undermine him.

At times it almost sounds as if Pietersen reads The Full Toss, not to mention Dmitri, and our friends who comment here and at the Guardian.

But there’s much more than Pietersen himself to contemplate. He portrays Andy Flower as a vindictive bully and Matt Prior as a corrosive hypocrite. Team England and the ECB come across as a vipers’ nest of cliques, infighting, and a selfish politicking which verges on the corrupt.

What a surprise.

Substance and response

It would be staggering if Pietersen stated anything as fact which wasn’t true. He has too much at stake. The Telegraph, his publisher Little Brown, and his highly-regarded ghost David Walsh have attached their reputations and credibility to what he’s saying – and won’t print anything they’re not extremely confident about.

Of course, this is all only Pietersen’s side of the story and much of it may have looked very different from other perspectives. He may have omitted things which don’t serve his purposes.

Only now will we start hearing from the other interested parties. It will be fascinating to learn who is prepared to say what.

The ECB come across extremely badly, as does Flower, who remains their employee. It may get worse when the book comes out. I sincerely hope the negative publicity severely damages their organisation. They need to be confronted by reality, and mend their arrogant, lying, and corrupt ways

Context

Today’s article is not an extract from the book and contains no direct quotes from it. Rather, it’s an interview, and the material has been selected and ordered not by Pietersen himself but Paul Hayward, who has written every word outside the quote marks.

This has to be borne in mind when analysing what has or hasn’t been said – and in the choice (by Hayward and the Telegraph) to make ‘bowler-bullying’ the top line. It’s they, not Pietersen, who are making many of the principal assertions.

The interview is a huge scoop for the paper. Pietersen’s decision to grant few interviews to sports journalists (especially, the cricket press) has raised the temperature. The hacks who’ve missed out will be envious, and resentful towards Pietersen.

Would Paul Newman have written what he did yesterday if he’d a chance of getting an interview?

There is little in the way of detail or examples to illustrate the main claims against Flower, Prior, and the general team culture. We’ll need to wait for the book’s evidence, or lack of it, to make a considered judgment.

Tone

Pietersen’s critics will probably say that many of his remarks sound boastful and vain. So what? If you’d received the amount of flak he has, wouldn’t you want to defend yourself? And what relevance anyway does it have to his sacking?

I wish he’d not claimed that his main motive for getting back into the England team is to help younger players. Common sense suggests that’s unlikely to be true of anyone.

But that doesn’t mean it’s not in the mix somewhere. His critics will scoff at all his sugary references to “helping” others – but just ask Monty Panesar, or look at Broad and Anderson’s batting stances.

Sacking

As we suggested might happen, Pietersen doesn’t really know himself exactly why he was fired. “Why was I sacked? I’d love to know.”

All he was told he says, was “cricketing reasons. We’re not going to select you. Cricketing reasons. They could hide behind that, because if they’d tried to give any other reasons I would have sued them. I would have taken them to the cleaners.”

As most of us suspected, “the ECB wanted to hang me on past misdemeanours which have proved to be – as you read in my book – just ridiculous.”

Many of us always thought it strange that from Paul Downton’s perspective, England’s biggest worry after the Melbourne test was Pietersen, the series top-scorer.

Pietersen’s view is interesting:

“If I’m so disengaged and you’re watching just me in that Test match, why were you just watching me? I’d love to say: ‘Paul, why were you watching just me? Has somebody told you that something’s going on? Has somebody told you I’ve lost interest in playing cricket for England?’”

Culture

Pietersen alleges that England have acquired an international reputation for the ugliness of their ‘bowler is king’ culture. It will be interesting to see how the likes of James Anderson – who admitted calling an opponent a “fat fucking c***” – will contest this charge.

Matt Prior

The singling out of Prior is a surprise and will be subject to much speculation and scrutiny – especially the revelation that Pietersen lobbied for his expulsion from the team.

And how about this bombshell? What does it tell you about the dysfunctionality of the Team England mindset:

“[Prior] wanted to start a media campaign to stop me getting the vice-captaincy, because Shane Warne and Michael Vaughan were talking favourably about me being Alastair Cook’s deputy.

“That’s what I took him up on in January when I got sacked. I said: ‘I’ve just been rung by two players in Australia who’ve been told by somebody in the ECB that you tried to start a media campaign against me.’ Is that seriously the heart and soul of the dressing room? This big team player?”

Prior is portrayed as a vain and caustic bully, but also, reading between the lines, the de facto enforcer and team boss after Strauss retired. No wonder that Alastair Cook went to such lengths to protect him.

As Pietersen says:

“Alastair Cook isn’t the greatest speaker; Matt Prior was his sidekick who could talk the hind leg off a donkey. So he wanted him close to him. He wanted his vice-captain to do all his talking for him”.

It’s also clear – as long understood – that Pietersen fell out with Anderson and Broad, but he is now on reasonable terms with them both. Why did they fall out, and when? Did it pre-date KPGenius?

Captaincy

This blog has always argued that the key event in the Pietersen saga was not textgate, but losing the captaincy. From that point onwards, the ECB distrusted him, resented him, loathed him, and sought revenge.

According to Paul Hayward’s summary today: “Pietersen outlined his belief that he was marginalised and demonised in the England set-up from the moment he lost the captaincy”.

Andy Flower

We were recently scolded by a leading cricket broadcaster for asserting that Andy Flower “comes across as long on memory but short on forgiveness”. And now it’s clear that Pietersen held this very same view himself:

“[Flower] had it in for me since I tried to get rid of him as second in command. He collected stamps. It was stamp after stamp after stamp, until he thought: ‘I can get rid of him now, let’s get rid of him.’ ”

The “tried to get rid of him” is a throwaway reference to an important incident – long rumoured and now confirmed – which I hope he’ll explain properly in the book.

As expected, the toxic relationship between Pietersen and Flower appears to be the key to the whole business:

“I’ve been one of the only ones who’ve constantly through his reign as coach not said ‘how high?’ when he said ‘jump’. He built a regime, he didn’t build a team. I’ve told him this before. I told him during his coaching reign. I told him on numerous occasions: ‘You’re playing by fear here, you want guys to be scared of you. And Andy I’m not scared of you.’ And he hated it.”

“[The establishment] didn’t like to be questioned. Andy Flower didn’t like one of his soldiers to hammer him. He was the boss. He wanted me to fear him”.

Pietersen supporters will say their fallout was Flower’s fault. Pietersen critics will say it was his fault.

I want to know more of the specifics, and what exactly their disagreements were about, but here are a few early thoughts.

Flower was the coach, not a football-style manager – an important distinction. His job was to manage egos and help players perform, not boss people around. He should have welcomed players standing up for themselves. Pietersen had by all accounts an excellent relationship with Duncan Fletcher.

Players are rather more important than coaches. As Pietersen says:

“A player is what people go to grounds to watch. The paying public don’t go there to watch Andy Flower”.

Leaks

Bloggers like us are often taken to task by journalists, and supporters of the establishment, for claiming that the ECB systematically leak and brief against Pietersen. What does he say himself?

“They’re the ones that broke the confidentiality agreement [when Paul Downton, the new managing director, gave a radio interview about the fall-out], they’re the ones who constantly had leaks. And that’s how the organisation works.”

Quite a few of the tittle-tattle stories from the winter turn out to be true – such as the Sydney disagreement with Cook about fitness training. How did these tales travel from the supposed sanctity of the dressing room to the papers?

Textgate

Pietersen is not quoted directly on the content of the messages, but Hayward says:

“Pietersen insists that his error was not disagreeing with a South African description of Strauss as a “doos” – a mild insult in his native country”.

So…someone else called Strauss a doos and Pietersen didn’t disagree? Or to put it another way – Pietersen did *not* call Strauss a doos. Remember, he always denied making “derogatory” remarks about Strauss, but his critics preferred to ignore that.

But whatever he did or didn’t write in a text message pales in significance compared with his psychological state at the time.

“Mentally I was totally broken. I was crying in a room with Andy Flower during that Test match, saying, how the hell has it come to this? I was completely broken, absolutely finished, mentally shot”.

It is unacceptable not to take these words at face value. If any other England player spoke like this nowadays, he received an awful lot of sympathy.

Pietersen was suffering from a period of mental distress and turmoil, and the KPGenius allegations tipped his destabilised mind over the edge. A grown man, he was in tears.

How did Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower and the ECB respond? As a captain, coach, and employers with a duty-of-care towards a player who was clearly in distress, maybe suffering from burn-out, and showing possible signs of psychological malady? They publicly humiliated him, and suspended him, for sending a private text message (the contents of which were unknown to them).

Peter Moores

What’s said on this front begs many questions:

“He denies, meanwhile, ever issuing the ECB a him-or-me ultimatum when he was the captain and Moores the coach: ‘It was never a him or me scenario. I said to Giles Clarke, in Chennai, in the room: ‘Giles, please let me just go and bat. He can coach, no problem. Let me please just go and bat. I just cannot captain with this guy.’ Michael Vaughan couldn’t do it, Paul Collingwood couldn’t do it, but I’m the one who gets labelled with the big fall out with Moores.'”

This account – of the pivotal political event in his career – is slightly self-contradictory, but also different in some respects from the ‘standard’ version of the story. Let’s hope he explains properly in the book.

Why he’s doing this

Pietersenphobes will lambast him for writing the book and doing interviews in the first place. It’s easy ammunition for those who claim he’s obsessed by self-promotion and ego.

They should take a look at Amazon and see all the books by Alastair Cook, Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad, who haven’t even retired yet. Almost every significant player does a book – including Strauss and Vaughan – so why shouldn’t Pietersen?

Especially when you look at it from his point of view:

“There has been this incredible machine that’s worked against me. This tidal wave that’s worked against me. And I needed an opportunity to say: This is my story. It’s been the most incredible journey. I just needed to have this as my right of reply”.

And quite right too.

Maxie Allen

39 comments

  • Excellent analysis Maxie. Pietersen has every right to say whatever he wants to say and I hope that his book will prove as revealing as this interview has been.

    • I agree. Well done Maxie. Such a good piece. KP does have the right to state his case after all Downton, Clarke, England players, former players now journos, and commentators have all had their say. Drip drip poison for very, many months now. KP’s book will certainly lift the lid off the ECB cesspit of hypocrisy. I posted some comments on the Daily Whale piece by Paul Newman and guess what? They were never posted. In fact only 3 comments were posted. Interesting. I see that Swann has come out to defend Matt Prior in the Daily Whale. Any comments on that stuff? George Dobell is getting an interview with KP: Me to GD: ‘U don’t tow ECB line! Ask decent questions most want answered. Good on yer George! Keep up good work.’ GD: ‘I’ll do my best. And he’ll be honest. He always is.’

      Cheers Maxie

  • Great post. Interesting and well balanced. Would not dispute the essential content of KP story so far, but I think it will boil down to the interpretation of those events, in the end.

  • Well Newman was invited to interview KP. And arrogantly, according to KP sent an email back to KPs publishers saying “no thanks.”

    Why does the Mail employ as their chief cricket writer a man who can’t be bothered to get off his fat arse and go an do his job? But then maybe Newman is doing his job; that of ECB stenographer. But the Mail should make that clear to its readers by describing him as such, and not cricket writer.

    This book is not going to change any minds but it does confirm what many of us have thought, and reveals the true culture of the England team.

    • “Well Newman was invited to interview KP” — not quite true, Mark. He was sent a general invitation from Pietersen’s publishers that went to all cricket journalists asking whether they wanted to interview KP in connection with the book. There is no guarantee that KP himself wouldn’t have vetoed an interview if Newman had requested it, and indeed, that seems highly likely given how KP sees Newman as having stabbed him in the back after their earlier collaboration. So the likeliest explanation is that Newman got his revenge in first by making it clear he wasn’t interested in interviewing KP anyway.

      • Clive, it is irrelevant whether KP would have vetoed being interviewed by Newman. The role of a journalist is to seek interviews with key people and base their stories on facts and then opinion.
        If all journalist too that view then some of the most odious people in the world will never have been recorded by independent witnesses.
        Indeed, it would have said something if KP had vetoed an interview with Newman. Rather we are left with the impression that Newman knows all he needs to know and doesn’t need KP’s version of events. In other arenas that would be designated as propaganda.

    • Interesting. Newman’s appalling piece tried to suggest that KP wasn’t giving interviews before the publication of his book? Then states all the questions he wants answers and then he is offered an interview and says he doesn’t want one. Unbelievable. I just cannot understand how he can be allowed to write such guff and get away with it. Surely the rubbish he produced – or spewed out – is so inflammatory he deserves to be sued?

  • The Guardian Live Blog is a nadir for reporting. The agenda is set before it started, but while I sort of know where Newman et al are coming from, something purporting to be humorous and to a degree even-handed, has been spiteful and snarky from the off.

    I am still not over my naivety in such matters, evidently.

    I don’t buy all that KP says, but it is interesting how no-one is honing in on the ECB politics and caring more about Prior and KP’s “relationship”. KP goes on about the ECB leaking. Any comment, press boys, live blogs etc.?

    • “The agenda is set before it started” – agreed, this perfectly sums up the problem with this whole tiresome debate.

    • The Guardian Beta live blog format is an utter, copper-bottomed disaster which has been inflicted on loyal commenters in the face of overwhelmingly negative feedback and without being properly tested. You should have seen the reaction on its well-regarded Politics blog last week. It is indicative of the Guardian’s nauseating high-handedness with regard to its readers and regular commenters. The same thing happened with nesting two years ago.

      That said, I think they could have salvaged things if they had Andy Bull writing the blog, or one of the regular Spin contributors/more mature OBO writers. Unfortunately, using an name unfamiliar to those who have followed this story for almost five years is gambling with any residual goodwill. To be fair to Nick Miller, I think he is snarking both sides, and he did tweet this about newman’s article over the weekend:

      https://twitter.com/NickMiller79/status/518687094651494400

      But in the end, I think regulars on both sides had a right to expect comments to be opened on an article, not a live blog, and to be able to debate in the format they’re familiar with. I cannot even think of another occasion when comments have been opened for a live cricket blog, and if they ever were, it would not have been in the Beta format.

      In the circumstances, I much prefer to be here and on HDWLIA. I doubt I’ll be alone (although clive for one seems undaunted by Beta!).

      • Hi Arron, couldn’t agree more the comments don’t load properly and one of yours appears at the bottom of every thread on my browser.

        Still at least it was something intelligent and not one of Westcorks ECB press releases. :)

  • It’s been rather tricky keeping up with events today as some in the press have copies, and the material is trickling piecemeal into the public domain.

    Please feel free to use this comments board to help us move the story on and keep up to date by adding or posting anything relevant you come across.

    Alas, bloggers’ resources of time are finite and this is the kind of situation where we can ‘crowd source’ to keep up with the curve.

    As I mentioned above, Tregaskis has now secured a copy and will post his review as soon as possible.

  • Check this out from

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/787621.html

    Kevin Pietersen’s autobiography contains colourful accusations and revelations about the England set-up he used to inhabit. Here we collect some of the stand-out lines.

    On his sacking by England:
    “They needed a scapegoat, preferably someone big, boisterous and annoying. Somebody with a little history. Somebody who left colourful footprints on the pristine white carpets. I didn’t always tread wisely. I was often naive and sometimes stupid. I was no villain, though.

    “I’ve read there is a ‘dossier’, a four-page document that lists my crimes in Australia. Fifty crimes. The problem is, it doesn’t actually exist. If a dossier did exist the ECB would have a reason to sack me.”

    On Andy Flower:
    “Contagiously sour. Infectiously dour. He could walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it in five seconds. Just a Mood Hoover. That’s how I came to think of him.

    On the England team environment:
    “A clique choked our team… and Andy Flower let that clique grow like a bad weed.

    “The dressing room slowly became the territory of the biggest mouths among the bowlers – and a wicketkeeper. They ran an exclusive club. If you’re outside that clique, you were fair game for mocking, ridicule, bullying.”

    On the Ashes whitewash:
    “It’s Flower who was the problem. Walking around with that ‘somebody stole our legacy’ face. The environment was horrendous.”

    On Matt Prior:
    “Prior, for instance, was a massive negative influence on the dressing room, and when I said that to Andy [Flower] the night before the Sydney Test, the head coach didn’t disagree.

    “The Big Cheese had matured and grown too large for his little box.”

    On his international career:
    “I’m not prepared to accept I will never play for England again … I believe the governing of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back. Anything can happen in cricket.”

    On Alastair Cook:
    “I know, though, that while Cooky is a nice man, he is also a company man. A safe pair of hands; he won’t rock the boat.”

    On Peter Moores:
    “Whatever dial is in Peter Moore’s head, it can’t be turned down to ‘chill’. The man can’t relax. I could never relax when he was around. He was always around.

    “He’s a nice guy but like a human triple espresso – so intense.”

    On leaving South Africa to play for England:
    “One big mistake was not respecting South Africa and what it stands for. Not respecting South Africa and what the country gave me in terms of living there for 19 happy years … I realise too that South Africa was my first home and my real home.”

    On the IPL:
    “When the IPL came into existence, all the ECB could see was the IPL’s money and its own jealousy.”

    On the KP Genius Twitter account:
    “I was left feeling isolated and bullied, but nobody seemed too bothered as long as I did my performing-seal routine when I went out to bat.”

  • Courtesy of Wisden India:

    In his book, Pietersen elaborated on the incident and insisted he hadn’t betrayed Strauss, while revealing he had an angry telephone exchange with the then captain after the details of his text messages came out. Pietersen said he was merely expressing views he would have shared with Strauss in person.

    “The next day Strauss called me on his own and we had a fine, big dingdong,” writes Pietersen. “He accused me of having done it. I admitted I had been in communication with the South Africans, but it was nothing bad. ‘These guys are friends. You guys have been treating me like s*** for three years. You’ve been acting like a d*** to me.’

    “I went through example after example. The only thing I was guilty of was not defending my captain.”

    Pietersen wrote further that his exchange of messages with the South Africans was just ‘mates letting off steam’. “It was a private message between mates letting off steam. Nobody writes a BBM (Blackberry Message) expecting it to be analysed by millions of people. It was just chatter. He (the South Africa player) said that Strauss was carrying on like an idiot, and that was it. It was nothing that I wouldn’t actually say to Straussy myself, at the time or now.

    “I have never and would never give any tactical information about any of my England teammates to anyone on the opposing side. It goes right to the heart of me as a professional and me as a human being.”

    In the interview, Pietersen also rejected accusations of being selfish. “My job in that batting order was to take risks, calculated risks, dominate the Test match so that we could be in a position where we could win the Test match,” he explained. “I did pretty well to score the number of runs I did at the average I did with so many man of the matches – so I’m not having this where people say, ‘you played for yourself, you’re selfish’.”

    Despite everything, Pietersen – who scored 8181 runs in 104 Tests, including 23 hundreds at an average of nearly 47.28 – insisted he had not given up hope of representing England even though he played no County Championship cricket for Surrey last season. “I’m not prepared to accept I will never play for England again,” he wrote. “Cricket is politics. Bad politics. Things change overnight. I believe that the governing body of English cricket could change; I believe it should change. I am happy for now, but I would be happy to come back.”

  • It will be interesting to see if any other players form this time will put their heads above the water to back KP up.Can’t see any players in the current team, or those hoping to get back in the team will say anything critical.

    But players who think they have no chance of returning to the team might feel like they want to have a say.

    I think we can see quite clearly why Cook was so prepared to let Prior stay in the team even with bad injuries. I remember the look on Cooks face when he was asked about Prior standing down. He looked pissed off. ” it’s up to him.” Which pretty much sums up Cooks captaincy.

    I wonder also if Prior did stand down voluntarily or was pushed out by Moores/ECB. After all,why stay as long as he did if he was not fit? Perhaps he was given the option to stand down rather than be kicked out.

  • Currently amusing myself by imagining the ECB office currently operating like “The Thick of It”‘s DoSaC

    • But who’s going to take the Malcolm Tucker Role there to the Hapless Giles Clarke!

  • Good to see Fat Gatt flip-flopping on SKY about how everyone has made mistakes and what a lot of good young cricketers the ECB seems to be stocked with, and how we should move on to them, dismiss KP’s book at a it of a (fictional?) laugh.

    True, Gatt. But KP never Straussed at an international umpire, however lousy. Never, apparently let his wife down while on shift as England captain. Never took cash from the apartheid regime and still doesn’t appreciate the significance of it. Maybe they were all attempts to get the TCCB to pick young cricketers in his stead, though oddly he was still playing for England at 40 (and not much cop).

    Please, journos, there are some opinons on KP you shouldn’t seek. ie those who, like, work for the ECB…

  • Swann’s taken a swipe at KP http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11144459/Kevin-Pietersen-autobiography-is-a-total-work-of-fiction-says-Graeme-Swann.html

    Though Maxie you’ll doubtless find this section interesting:
    ‘Jonathan Agnew, the BBC cricket correspondent interviewing Swann on stage, said it was Flower who brought Pietersen back into the fold. “But he didn’t want to,” replied Swann, adding to the mystery in recent weeks of who was responsible for his “reintegration” process. Pietersen dismisses Flower’s role writing in his book that he thought the coach was visibly upset when he realised he would be forgiven for the text message scandal of 2012.’

    • Swann says that was a great team ethos until Mitch Johnson took it away. Not much of a STRONG ethos then, Swanny, I’d suggest.

      Bit like a player buggering off and living his team mates in the midin I the middle of a series.

  • I’m not going to comment on the dressing room stuff because that’s KP’s side – I’m sure others see it differently. I honestly couldn’t care less about all the he-said, she-said.

    On a pure cricketing front, the whole ‘it was my job to take calculated risks’ line is a bit of a cop-out. It’s his job to bat and not get out – when the team is 3 and 4 down for not very many like they were in Australia, the senior batsman’s role is to get the team to a respectable total by whatever means necessary. In the situations they were in, they needed KP at the crease, not taking ‘calculated’ risks, indeed not taking any risks at all.

    I just don’t buy it – I avoid sports biographies at the best of times – I will be avoiding this one like the plague.

    • He was talking about his entire career. To pick out his final series is ‘selective’, to put it mildly. And if you remember Melbourne, it was he and he alone who grafted to a decent score whilst all around him collapsed.

    • Indeed, Zeph, it’s a refreshing piece and very astute the way it manages to focus on the bigger issues apparently raised in the book rather than the headline-grabbing personality issues. It’s almost as though the Guardian were apologising for inflicting Nick Miller’s live blog on us earlier.

      • And now Barney Ronay’s review is up. I confess, it’s a lot better than I dreaded. Barney’s columns are rarely about cricket at all, more an excuse for his carefully rehashed flights of fancy, but this is well written.

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