Finding A New Captain

Today guest writer John Bartholomew argues that it’s time to move on from Joe Root. But where can England find a replacement with alternatives thin on the ground? John has a left field suggestion…

Everyone can see that the captain makes a difference – we need look no further than Eoin Morgan to show us what incisive and purposeful leadership can do. At test level, Brendon McCullum comes to mind.

England’s last two Test captains have been too cautious: 

We do not want a captain who likes to go into a Test match with five alarmingly similar right arm seam bowlers.

We do not want a captain who has to fall back on his own off spin because he doesn’t trust any of his other spin bowlers enough for them to establish themselves.

We do not want a captain who, when a generous New Zealand declaration offers 273 to win in 75 overs, chooses to batten down the hatches with Dom Sibley, and crawl to a very cautious and drama free 170-3.  The Lord’s last day crowd would surely have preferred to watch a gallant but unsuccessful 250 all out. 

You can probably add other instances to this list. Although there are mitigating factors – it’s not Root’s fault that the third highest scorer for the England after three Ashes Tests was Extras, and it’s not his fault that his colleagues in the slip cordon are less reliable than he is – it’s clear that England need a change. Root might be the leading (if not the only) run scorer for his team, and he’s done a lot for English cricket, but this doesn’t change the fact that we need a new skipper.

© David Morton

The trouble is… there are no obvious successors.  Ben Stokes is the next in line, but he already – like Root – bears too much playing responsibility in the side and is currently struggling to re-establish himself after a long lay-off.  Jos Buttler might bring some imagination to the task, but he is on the slippery slope form-wise.  Stuart Broad would be gung-ho and aggressive, but is hardly a forward-looking choice, and he would have burned through all the England reviews by the end of his third over.

As for the rest – I see nothing but questions. All of the above, like Joe Root (who may keep the position due to lack of alternatives), are tainted by humiliating defeat.

In similar circumstances in the past, the powers that be have trawled through the county captains not playing for England in an attempt to come up with someone a bit inspirational. Peter May selected his godson Chris Cowdrey (in 1988).  That didn’t go well, but sometimes it has.  Brian Close (1966/7 – captain in 7 tests, won 6); Ray Illingworth – master of field placing (1969 – 73 – won only 12 out 30 test matches, but that included an Ashes series victory); of course Mike Brearley who with an average of 22.88 in tests never properly justified his place as a batsman but led England 31 times (famously including the 1981 Ashes) winning 18 matches and losing only 4.  Morgan might have produced something similar in the test team, but that day is past, so let’s take a look round the counties. 

I like the look of one who has a first class (red ball) average of 34.29 (P 74/ Inn 108/ NO 11/Runs 3327/Highest 171). He took over and rejuvenated his county side leading them to their first promotion in 11 years and a Lord’s final in the Royal London Cup; he was named vice-captain of England’s T20 side for a tour of New Zealand; he skippered one of the franchise teams in The Hundred where he had to lead plenty of star cricketers; he was hired as an unknown by one of the IPL teams, who retained him for a second year after he had proved himself an accomplished player of spin and a dazzling fielder. Meanwhile, his respectable, if not great, first class batting average is very closely comparable to those of Buttler, Hameed, Stokes, Malan and Crawley in the current Ashes squad. 

Reader – I give you Sam Billings.

John Bartholomew


  • Good call. A bit of me wants Tom Abell, who has progressed from a rather dodgy start as Somerset captain but has developed well in the role. Possibly bring him in to the side for a year or so first. He is a pretty good bat, a fair bowler and an excellent fielder. I definitely feel we need to go back to appointing a captain with some experience in the role. JR’s single captaincy before England was, I believe, against Middlesex and was a thumping defeat. We need someone who can use spinners effectively and not bowl marquee players into the ground..

  • Yes I was going to suggest Abell. I’ve not seen a lot of Billings, but the problem will be that Foakes still won’t get a look in, particularly if Pope improves his batting because he is a better keeper than Butler and probably Bairstow.
    As an interim measure Burns could do a job, he has captained Surrey to the Championship title and has a better county average than certainly Billings. And come on he is far better than Hameed or Crawley as an opener.
    Either way Root has to go as captain asap. So do Silverwood, the ECB and about half this sorry team. And Jimmy it’s time you retired. Not sure what he is trying to prove, and the team can’t move on with the old guard.

  • It’s right to raise this issue. Whether Sam Billings is the answer, I don’t know, but it looks as though he will have a chance to demonstrate his Test credentials at Hobart. Joe Root’s body language suggests that he is at the end of his tether, and even if he is not relieved of his captaincy duties (which I can’t see the ECB embracing to be honest), he might well decide to pack it in anyway. There is an argument that the rebuilding of the team should be led by Root, but I think that’s false. He is inextricably tied into the team’s failings – and failings of leadership – and he should now take his place as the top-class batter that he is, without the burden of captaincy.

    I often think that too much is made of the captaincy, and consequently the selection of that person becomes more difficult. Root himself might have been an obvious choice when first appointed, but he has never really learned to be a decent captain. He makes some very poor strategic decisions. In the modern era, picking the best player in the current side is quite common, and I don’t necessarily espouse the 1988 approach, bringing in someone who isn’t in the team. Although I am not sure they do it now, the Australians used to make much of their stated policy to pick the best eleven players and select one of them as captain. That policy went out of the window temporarily in 1977 in the fact of the Packer rebellion, but it is a reasonably sound approach.

    If that is applied to the England team, one might think that of those who are certain of their place, the pecking order for the new captain is (1) Stokes, (2) Bairstow if Stokes won’t do it, (3) Broad as a stop-gap, (4) Malan. All have captaincy experience of some sort, though Stokes has less than the others I believe. He is probably the best strategic leader available, based on limited evidence, and the strongest character, which helps. I am ignoring Buttler as his Test career is finished.

    Outside (but near) the current set-up, I would suggest (1) James Vince, (2) Billings, (3) with considerable doubt about the security of his place, Rory Burns.

    Whatever change is made needs to happen in time for the West Indies tour.

    • Of course the two possible truly left-field options are Eoin Morgan and Moeen Ali.

  • If we’re going to pick a captain who can only justify his place in the side in terms of captaincy and not in terms of cricketing ability, then let’s make them someone that can be sent out to open the batting. Otherwise, they’re keeping someone half decent out of the team.

    I’d rather have Burns as captain, replacing Hameed, than Billings as captain, keeping Foakes (and Bairstow) out of the team.

  • Just a quick postscript to my article to say it was written some days ago before Billings was drafted into the Ashes squad.

  • An enquiringly mind for me is a key element to captaincy. This involves the ability to anticipate a necessary tactic before the horse has bolted. It’s not Root’s fault he hasn’t developed this and who is going to turn down the England captaincy when offered. Once again the blinkered ECB has taken a fruitless gamble. It’s clear they don’t understand the imposrtance of specialisation in the red ball game so it comes as no surprise. During this latest test the ball consistenly held up in the surface yet neither Root or his advisers seemed keen to do the obvious and have a fielder in catching position in front of the wicket, where a number of presentable chances went begging. We were screaming at the screen here for someone to be aggressive this way, after all you have to take 20 wickets to win a test, containing doesn’t do this. Once again Root let the match drift waiting for something to happen. It was like watching England under Gower.
    With our present paucity of red ball batting talent it’s almost worth picking a captain from the counties primarily for his ability as captain, a bit like Brearley.

    • The Buttler dismissal was just as you describe. Personally I’d be happy with someone who remembers a short-leg is occasionally allowed.

      A bigger issue has been the handling of Leach. At last, in the second innings of the Fourth Test, he was allowed to bowl at LHBs outside off-stump and promptly took 4 wickets. Okay, it wasn’t Laker in ’56 but it was a contribution at least. Previously, Leach has been forced to bowl at the pads of LHBs by the fields that have been set. Root has also shown an uncanny ability to bring Leach on at LHBs and has seemed completely insensitive/unaware that Leach has a much better record against RHBs. Leach’s better figures might also have something to do with the fact that he’s got some overs unde his belt. Just in case anyone thinks I’m completely one-eyed about Leach, his shot to get out was bloody awful and he should have had a bollocking about it.

      BTW I remember Steve Smith’s captaincy of Nathan Lyon was initially very poor. Batsmen-captains who are good players of spin themselves and are learning on the job maybe have this problem. Lyon was such a mess that he was about to be dropped – but his replacement (SNJOK – what happened to him?) got injured.

        • Before the series, he claimed that Head is such a poor player that his recall boded well for England.

          I’m just asking for an update on that.

        • The update is in the scorecards, surely? Which show that, as it tutned out, it didn’t bode at all well for England.

          Which I don’t think completely negates the original point–which I suspect was based on the facts that he had a very poor county season in England last summer and that his test average before this series had been considerably bolstered by averaging 150 in a test series against a Sri Lanka attack with most of their bowlers injured.

          And it also doesn’t (can’t) answer an implication of the sentiment, namely would Khawaja at 5 have taken England’s bowlers apart even more?!

          I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at. It’s pretty obvious that Head had a great series, isn’t it?

          • Why are you answering for him?

            If Head were English, you chaps would be anointing him the next captain.

          • I’m not part of any group of chaps–I’m speaking for myself! I’m simply responding to your point–which is still a bit obscure to me. Why is it so important to you whether one person’s assessment of Head was or wasn’t right?

  • Bringing in a captain from outside the current team is fraught with problems. Before he’s even begun, the rest of the team will be questioning whether he’s worth his place in the side. Chris Cowdrey was the last time the selectors tried it, over 30 years ago, and he looked hopelessly out of his depth.

    Always amazes me that Anderson, our most experienced Test player, never even gets considered in captaincy discussions – even though Pat Cummins has shown once and for all that there’s no reason a specialist fast bowler can’t be a successful Test captain.

    • Sorry – great bowler though he is, I suspect that Anderson (and Broad) may be part of the problem; perhaps not intentionally, but because of their seniority making them difficult to lead.

  • The captain has to play every game and there are very few in this time who are (or should be) assured of this. It seems clear now that the reason Buttler was recalled and persevered with was he was Plan B with the captaincy. All I can say about Buttler’s place in the team is that England looked better in the field yesterday with Pope keeping wicket.

    I found the stat-mining to disrespect Ray Illingworth in the article weird and distasteful. More Test matches used to be drawn in those days. Who doesn’t know this? England were top of the rankings under his leadership and he won an away Ashes without gaining a single LBW decision. He managed two notoriously difficult personalities in Boycott and Snow who other regimes preferred to omit (and lose – but hey, the captain had a quiet life). Illingworth had one bad series against WI in 1973 and TPTB promptly gave him the heave-ho to bring in the more pliable Denness with predictably disastrous results.

    • How many matches did Illingworth actually lose? The answer is five, against 12 wins. I attempted to make a list of the England captains in the period that I’ve been following cricket (54 years), in order of ability, and out if the 15 full-time holders of the office (unless I’ve forgotten any) I would put Illingworth in second place. (Root is not in the top 12.)

  • England play no less than five T20 series this year… and there’s the T20 WC…. and there’s the IPL and 16.66…

    I don’t see how any T20 regular can captain the Test team as well.

  • Given that there isn’t a single decent candidate, how about picking the best side and then rotating the captaincy between anyone who expresses an interest from the 10 players who aren’t Joe Root? Someone might grow into the job.
    There’s no point in picking a captain who doesn’t earn his place in the team on merit. I remember when England tried that with Chris Cowdrey in the 1980s, apparently for no better reason that he’d been to Oxbridge, was Colin’s son and Peter May’s godson. Another truly embarrassing episode. Fortunately he got injured and only captained in the one Test, which proved to be his last.

  • I’m beginning to wonder if this is a generational issue and that the changed educational and social environment no longer encourages participants (not just) in sport to take responsibility and show leadership. The cricket cupboard is certainly bare, but there are similar problems in other sports. In both soccer and rugby, for example, we have produced over the years a steady stream of leaders at both club and country level but that is no longer the case. It could be that these things just go in cycles but I am beginning to wonder. I am no longer involved with sport at the grass roots but would be interested to hear from those who are, whether this is something they have noticed at that level also.

    • There might be a bit of that, but I think that it’s more a case that anyone who’s any good gets thrust into the England side very early and contracted, so never gets the opportunity to captain (or even play for) a county and develop captaincy skills.

      • Yes, I certainly agree with that as well. When you think of former England captains who had previously spent years on the County circuit standing next to the likes of Close, Illingworth, Brearley, Fletcher et al the contrast with Root, through no fault of his own, could hardly be greater. I also don’t think he’s been terribly well supported by either Bayliss or Silverwood.

    • You make a good point, but there are proper leaders around, Gareth Southgate being a shining example. (I can’t necessarily think of another one offhamd…)

      • John B
        I would say that in sporting terms Southgate belongs to a previous generation ! I should have said, by the way, that I very much enjoyed the article.

      • Southgate maybe a good man manager but he has consistently failed to take advantage of the unprecedented pool of attacking talent we now have available and gone for defensive options, playing 6 sometimes 7 defenders including the keeper. This will not win us tournaments. Tactically I feel his naturally cautious approach has undermined his use of our potential, so I would not use him as a great example of leadership.

  • Desperate times call for desperate measures. I would bring Tom Abell straight in as captain – he has scored crucial runs for Somerset, has a strong record as captain of the side, and being number three for a side who have problems at the top of their order means he has experience of coming in after the loss of an early wicket – very relevant given England’s current situation.

    • He’s got a FC average of 32?

      What happens if he doesn’t make runs at Test level and gets dropped?

      • Brearley was kept on without setting the world alight as a batsman.
        If you select a captain primarily for his captaincy ability you stay with him if he has a positive effect that way. Look at the test averages of any of the so called specialist test batsmen outside of Root. How many decent county batsmen could do much worse? Look at Buttler, he would have played in the last test as wicket keeper batsman despite his poor form in both. He’s in the clique there and is almost undroppable despite his consistent failure to impress in either discliplne and the availability of world class alternatives who can bat a bit.

      • That’s an interesting example Marc–because it’s clear that Buttler is still there because of his perceived leadership capabilities–ie that offsets his lack of playing performance. So why would Abell–who averages eight or twelve runs less than a lot of his contemporaries–be any different from Buttler? What’s the difference?

    • I’m not convinced about the strong record. Surely a really good captain’s really good captaincy is–at least over a number of years–reflected in winning trophies. Abell hasn’t won any red-ball trophies–he’s captain of a bunch of perennial bridesmaids without having being able to turn them into brides, despite having one of the best bowling attacks in the country.

      One of the issues is that, as far as I can see, there are only two current players who’ve captained a red-ball-trophy winning side–and in four of the last six years the trophy has been won by a foreign captain.

      Speaking of which….if we’re into the parachuting in captains game, why is everyone so sure that Abell would be a better bet than Will Rhodes, who averages more with the bat, less with the ball and HAS won the Championship?

  • I think bringing someone from outside has a number of problems. For it to be successful the senior players in the side need to be fully in support of it, and that means at least Rook and Stokes, otherwise it will cause more problems then otherwise. My memory of this last happening is when Lee Germon was made captain of New Zealand in the mid-1990s and it didn’t really go that well. A number of players didnt like it and caused trouble. The best you could say about it was that it gave a very young Stephen Fleming 12 months to get settled in the side before taking over.
    One of the problems with the modern day world is that the test players don’t spend much time in the County sides captaining sides so we really don’t get much chance to see what they like running a side. Some of the leading players would probably make good, crafty captains and other are probably not deep thinkers but who could say which is which.
    Still of the players there about Id have a good hard discussion with Root and Stokes about who they would want to follow. Candidates might be Vince, Burns, Bairstow, Leech or hey how about Wood with Root as his deputy, filling in when he is injured like Smith did for Cummins when he had covid. I really don’t know how much smarts any of these guys have, or natural authority, so wont pick one.
    By the way I think England should seriously consider a bowler as Captain. Some of them spend a lot of their time in the field thinking of how to attack and get wickets, not just from their own bowling but out of habit for other bowlers (while the batsmen doze off). Oh if they choose a batsman like Vince, Burns or Bairstow they could let them bat at 5 or 6.

  • Wait, you guys think that picking a player who’s not even guaranteed a place in the side, and making him captain, is the way to go?

    Never change, England.

    • Well, I’m also sceptical but then it’s all of one captain ago that Australia appointed someone who’d played all of nine tests in a twelve-year f-c career, hadn’t been in the side four months earlier and who ended up with an f-c average of 29 outside tests…and it didn’t go too badly, whether from a cricketing point of view or that of his own performance..

      • Tim Paine?

        The difference is that Paine was the best keeper in the country so was a safe bet to be in the best XI. How many England players are similarly assured a spot?

        Paine had also been earmarked as a leader years ago, before injuries, so it wasn’t a massive stretch to go back to him when the need arose.

  • Kinda pathetic to see English commentators like Hussain acting like gurning schoolgirls over scraping a rain-assisted draw. I seem to remember widespread ridicule of Australia when they did the same , say in 2013.

    I hope Steve Smith learns that wanting to rush off when it starts spitting cost his team almost certain victory. It drizzled for three minutes and Smith got them off the ground for half an hour through his pressurising of the umpires.

    Starc and Malan look burnt-out by their efforts in the early games. However with Hameed’s problems and Bairstow making runs there doesn’t appear any place for dropping Malan lower down the order. The only surprise with Hameed is that it hasn’t reaaly been bounce that’s undone him, more lateral movement through a very rigid forward prod. If Burns makes runs with the pressure off it’ll be a different sort of problem but there’s no real alternative to recalling him.

    Mark Wood remains something of an enigma – he’s bowled with great heart and seemed to be troubling the batsmen but the fact is that over 3 Tests he’s averaging 38 in what have been bowler-friendly conditions and against a less than vintage batting line-up. He doesn’t seem able to actually dismiss batsmen which the media seem to forget is the object, not speed-gun readins or inflicting the odd bruise.

    BTW I hope that First Test in NZ was genuine and Bangladesh have found some good new players. However if a horse had their track record and lost as badly in the next race as they’ve done then a few questions would be being asked.

    • The only candidate at least in the short term from the current lot, is Burns in my view. He’s captained Surrey to the Championship win in 2018 and does have experience. Long term you bring in someone new because there is no one bar Stokes in the current bunch who should be anywhere near the job. But would you want to burden Stokes further with captaincy? Whatever happens England cannot start moving forward with Root and Silverwood still in charge after this last Test. To be honest both should have been sacked at the end of the 3rd Test nightmare.

      • In all likelihood, Root will remain captain.

        Write down the players who are similarly assured a spot in the best XI. It’s a short list, and Anderson and Broad probably won’t be considered due to their age.

        This idea that you can pluck a batsman out of the ether, slot him into the Test side and also make him captain, and then just hope like hell he makes enough runs to justify his continued selection; that’s crazy, and totally arse-backwards.

        Rory Burns?

        He was dropped a few weeks ago.

        He’s back in the side now but he’s playing for his career. And you reckon he could/should be captain?

        Imagine if Rory Burns had been captain this series. How helpful would it have been for England to have had a captain and opening batsman averaging 10 for the series while getting routinely worked over by the Australian bowlers? You reckon that would have been better than having Root in charge?

        • Given the debacle of the last three days, and the disgraceful capitulation of today, anyone would be better than Root. He has no leadership capabilities whatsoever and his post-match comments were totally delusional.

          • Anyone would be better than Root?

            That’s nonsense.

            You know who’d be worse than Root? Someone who’s not even part of the best XI on merit. That would weaken England further.

          • Isn’t the question though, who IS part of the best XI on merit? Billings, for example, has a higher f-c average than Buttler, Abell than Hameed or Crawley, Rhodes than any of them or Bracey or Stokes, and Vince or Ben Brown higher than most players who’ve played in the last few years.

            Especially in the top three, it’s difficult to say with any certainty. Who would be your top three for the West Indies, for example, Tom–and if it involves moving players from down the order, who replaces them?

            The other thing with Root’s captaincy (the worst part in my view) has been how destructive it’s been to the fitness of some of the seam bowlers either through commission or omission–Archer and Robinson in different ways being the obvious examples. It’s not only about losing 50 runs in one game because of tactical errors.

  • Dear Ian,

    Here’s my response, rather than it being squeezed as a reply.

    Yes, the composition of the best XI, particularly the batting line-up, is the main question confronting England.

    I’ll leave the specifics to you guys, or at least until a proper post-mortem thread. I have a general view, but I wonder if England actually have batsmen who would have done better in Straya than the guys you picked? From what I gather, your best top 6 is still probably Crawley, Burns, Malan, Root, Stokes and Bairstow, with Pope and Hameed in the wings. But yeah, if there’s someone better waiting for an opportunity, now would be the time to pick them. If that’s Billings, good luck to him. That doesn’t mean you make him captain.

    Optimising that top 6, on merit and on performance, should be the overriding consideration, not parachuting in someone and making him captain when he’s not even justified his spot. That would be a disaster waiting to happen.

    As you know, I believe England’s cricketing culture is weak and unaccountable, and that is fundamentally why Australia are on average better at cricket. You guys blame the system, fixturing, administrators etc. That makes you feel better and gives you something to vent about, but those exuses both reflect and conceal a difference in culture that supersedes all that.

    Look at South Africa, by comparison. They’ve lost some great players and are theoretically at a low ebb in terms of having established stars, but there is still a stubborness, grit and combativeness in their cricket that England simply can’t emulate without generational talent. South Africa just beat India, coming back from 1-0 down. That was at home, but I can’t imagine South Africa coming to Straya and capitulating as England have. I can’t imagine South Africa being ritually humiliated as England have been on their last 3 tours to Australia.

    That’s why Australians don’t respect English cricket. There is a weakness born of denial and bullshit in England, and a fundamental cultural difference that underpins Australia’s superiority. When you win, you hand out OBEs and do the sprinkler dance, but when you lose, you capitulate completely and blame the administrators.

    Simply put, Australia produces better, tougher players, and produces superstars more often and more reliably. Look at the way England have been worked over by Australia’s second and third tier: Head, Khawaja, Green, Boland, Richardson. This series wasn’t a case of one great player like Smith or even Cummins being the difference. Cummins had a fine series but Australia’s depth players came in and smashed England. That’s not a coincidence. That’s not about the CC fixture. Why do you think Australian coaches are in demand around the world, whereas English coaches are nowhere near it? Again, it’s not a coincidence. Is that because of the CC fixture as well?

    England picking someone as captain without demanding they first nail down a spot would simply epitomise these shortcomings. He’d be a caricature of English frailty, unaccountability and desperation. Those are hallmarks of a weak culture. He’ll get taken apart and you’ll end up dropping him because he averages less than 30 with the bat at Test level.

    In light of that, I expect Root to be captain for the return Ashes in 2023.

  • Joe Root debuted in December 2012. Since then, how many players have England debuted or developed who can average 40+ in Tests?

    Meanwhile, Australia had 5 guys who average 40+ playing in Hobart.

    And you folks still think there’s not a fundamental superiority? It’s all about the CC fixture? Or the administrators? Please, stop the denial and acknowledge reality.

    Look, England had a little window of 4 or 5 years when they were quite good and Australia were in a generational period of decline/mediocrity. That was England’s brief “golden era”, which was bookended by two 5-0 Ashes hidings in 2007-08 and 2013-14. I guess that’s a “golden era” by English standards. And yes, somewhere in between, for a few years, England were better than Australia. That’s fine. You handed out your MBEs and did your little sprinkler dance. It was amazing.

    But that’s over now, and we’ve reverted to the mean of the past 30-40 years, which involves Australia being better than England, basically because Australia has a tougher, more ruthless, more accountable culture, because they care more and because they produce better players. How is that disputable? If you’ve been watching cricket since 1990, give or take, how could an England fan possibly disagree with that statement? Surely you’ve seen enough to know that England are on average at a disadvantage against Australia, because England are England and Australia are Australia. Just accept it and stop making excuses.

    I’m not saying England will never have another day in the sun. That would be unreasonable. I’m just saying that over the course of 40 years, England should expect to be dominated by Australia for 30, break even for 5 and maybe have their noses in front for 5.

    So hang in there. I’m sure the next “golden era” is only a few decades away.

    If you want further evidence, look at the fact that English commentators are frothing over the prospect of getting Ponting or Langer to replace Silverwood as coach. It won’t happen, but aren’t you embarrassed by this? It is a perfect distillation of my argument about culture.

    Where are the in-demand English coaches? Why would you prefer foreigners? Fletcher, Flower, Bayliss, who achieved some success, and now the dream is Langer or Ponting? From this, what should we conclude about English coaches and, as a corollary, the culture of English cricket when you need to draft in foreigners to run the show? It’s a tacit admission that the English cricket culture is inadequate, for all the reasons I’ve outlined.

    Can you imagine the situation in reverse? Can you imagine a bunch of former Australian players getting together and insisting that Cook or Strauss or Collingwood or whoever should be the next coach of Australia?

    We’d burn the joint down. That’s the culture. That’s the difference. You guys still don’t get it.


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