Exclusive video footage of the ECB-Pietersen disciplinary hearing

52 comments

  • Quite simply one of the greatest comedy sketches ever written.

    Would I be right in assuming that Mr Pietersen is a South African gentleman?

  • The issue of the fake twitter account was where Jonathan Agnew did not come across very well last night on 5live. Personally I did not get the feeling he was telling us everything he knew. He admitted that the person who ran the account was from “stuart Broad country” He also admitted that the persons father drinks in Mr Agnew’s local pub.

    But he vehemently denied that the account was being run from within the England dressing room as claimed by KP. I thought this was very much semantics. After all, England players don’t have to be actually logging in and writing the tweets. But if they are passing on juicy titbits for someone else to write isn’t that part of the conspiracy?

    KPs question to Agnew was about the fake twitter account. Why would he ask Agnew about it. It’s almost as if there is an implication that Agnew knows more than he is letting on or dare I suggest it is in some way involved. What was very noticeable was Agnew was very very adamant that the account was not being run from the dressing room. Well how would he know?

  • Slightly disingenuous to say that Agnew left because of the spat with Taylor. It was the Ebola abuse that tipped him over the edge.

  • Okay, where to begin? After a summer of losing patience with Agnew, I’d actually started to sympathise with him the last couple of days – he’s still been skeptical of KP’s claims, but that’s understandable, KP has always polarised opinion. Agnew has at least taken the claims seriously and come across as willing to question whether he has misunderstood the situation, and seemed to be trying to question the ECB a bit more (for example, him backing up the claims of fielders receiving abuse). And it’s understandable for him to leave twitter if people are wishing Ebola on him – disappointing journalism does not justify wishing a horrible disease on someone.

    But there was no need for him to be so patronising to Jessica Taylor – she’s standing up for her husband, being reasonably polite, and Agnew tells her to “lose the attitude”, basically because she’s proving him wrong. That’s really low, and I’ve lost any small amount of respect I was still prepared

    • ‘Lose the attitude’ is astonishingly rude. She’s not a teenager and he’s not a schoolmaster.

    • Did you never get blocked by Agger’s? Disagree with him and he will tell you you are rude and then just block you.He doesn’t like to be wrong.

    • *My final sentence got messed up, didn’t it? It was late when I commented last night. I meant to say “I’ve lost any small amount of respect I still had for him”.

  • As someone else has commented, he didn’t leave because of the row about passwords, he left after someone said something along the lines of “I hope you become the first British victim to die of Ebola”. I know you have a problem with Agnew Maxie (mostly for just cause) but don’t vilify him for reacting to a terrible comment like that. This whole thing is completely childish.

  • Without wishing to diminish the suffering of Jonathan Agnew, if some anonymous adolescent shouted “I hope you get Ebola and die!” either in the street or on the internet, I’d just laugh at their childishness. Reacting to such juvenile twattishness just inflates their already over-developed sense of importance.
    Does he not “quit” Twitter on a fairly regular basis?

    • Hasn’t the ECB/ media position been that KP should toughen up and not be such a wimp in relation to bullying?

      The person who insulted Agnew is an idiot. But he is not the first to be unpleasant towards a famous person on social media.

      Agnew will be back. Didn’t Selvey trounce off in a huff and then return? England have no real cricket of importance until next year, and seeing how badly the ECB/media position has gone this week, the cynic in me might suggest this was a good time to ‘ disappear’ from the social media front line.

    • At least three times now… Am sure once he has recieved enough tweets brown nosing him he will be back. I noticed his dog has starting tweeting a bit more though

    • Of course; you’re right. The point is that if Maxie is going to write – yet another – post on the same thing then he should at least put it into context, or give the full story before he takes another childish pop at Agnew. Of course Agnew will be back and he’s petulant for quitting yet again but the above is just a lazy post

      • Hi there – thanks for your post. I hardly think I vilified him – in fact I made no comment at all apart from state what happened. The ebola element has been made perfectly clear, bur it still derived from the original argument.

        I don’t think it’s at all fair to say that I’m having ‘another childish pop’ at Agnew. What are you referring to? Since my interview with him, the only two times I have mentioned him on this site are here:

        https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/the-turtle-tank-revisited/

        And here:

        https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/the-best-of-times-the-worst-of-times/

        My last words on the subject – hardly a childish pop – were:

        “As both Jonathan Agnew and I felt there was some unfinished business, we made contact – and after a few e-mails agreed to draw a line under the rumpus.

        “I continue to stand by our material, and of course our writer Tregaskis, whom I closely consulted. I will not be changing the article in question. In turn, Jonathan has articulated his own points very clearly and with conviction, We will agree to disagree, and move on”.

        Yesterday’s spat was a perfectly valid thing to note – the BBC cricket correspondent was arguing with Pietersen’s wife in public about the facts of a crucial element of this story.

        • Your post was mocking him for quitting Twitter again….ok, as James says below, perhaps he over reacted / is overly sensitive (mock him for that if you want…personally I’d don’t think you’d look too good for it). But I stand by saying its a childish pop to bring it into a post here when the reason he quit was nothing to do with the password ‘conversation’.

          • Heaven forbid anyone should mock Jonathon Agnew. Not Jonathon Agnew!!

            He acts like a peacock on Twitter, prancing around looking for sycophants to blow smoke up his arse. He dishes out high-handed insults to anyone he fancies and then acts the victim when he gets some back, and allegedly ‘leaves’ Twitter, only to come back when enough people say they miss him.

            His behaviour is ridiculous.

          • Has JA actually provided the specific reasons why he quit? Do you know themself yourself or are you making as assumption? Might one element have been that he was embarrassed by what he had said?

            As he had deleted his account, and his Tweets and replies were no longer visible, one can be forgiven for only seeing a partial picture at first. It’s now been made perfectly clear on this thread that the ebola Tweet was of significance, so I don’t see what the problem is.

            I still don’t accept that pasting up what he actually said,without comment, amounted to a pop. His Tweets to JT are interesting in their own right.

            I presume you now accept that it is not legitimate to say ‘another childish pop’ as my previous remarks about JA have been perfectly sober and fair, as you will have read in the ‘Best of times’ post.

            In fact, after we exchanged e-mails following the Turtle row we buried the hatchet and ended up on good terms.

            However, Arron is correct in drawing attention to the real significance.

            Later today I will post on the story properly, but before then we invite comments on the KP Genius story and how it’s moved on. My copy of the book will arrive this morning and what interests me is the lengths the ECB went to to find evidence of his texts. Were they as stringent with Broad and co?

          • How do you know it was “nothing to do with the password conversation?”

            It is just another example of how he reacts when he is proven wrong, be it blocking, muting, patronising, and in this case…storming off in a huff.

      • When you say ‘*another* childish pop’, which other childish pop are you referring to? (Not that the above is a pop at all, much less ‘childish’).

    • From our perspective, the real story is not Jonathan Agnew quitting Twitter, but the fact that many tweeters were incredulous that he did not adjust his position on KPGenius in response to Alec Stewart’s comments. The Ebola comment was unforgivable, and is just the sort of thing that others will use to discredit social media and bloggers. So it would be wise to look at the substance of what people (not just JA, JT and the inevitable Piers Morgan) were actually arguing about last night.

      • I completely agree, I’d much rather read a better thought out post with some detail in it, rather than a hastily posted cut and paste of a select Twitter conversation.

        • “hastily”? what does the speed have to do with anything? it is cut and paste of primary evidence, far more useful than opinion.

      • DING DING DING. We have a winner!

        Too right Arron. Agnew’s position on the fake twitter account has been suspicious from the start. Far to willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those involved. Alec Stewart’s intervention yesterday, (which goes against what Swann has said) and KP s wife having to explain to him the significance of a password makes him look either clueless or worse, complicit.

  • It seems to me that Aggers takes things very personally. The abuse was disgusting, but we all get attacked to some extent. I think simply blocking the moron who said it would have been the best course of action. He could’ve reported the person too. Can’t you get in trouble for stuff like that now? Don’t let the bullies win …. we didn’t. No matter how big the bully is.

  • I read that Agnew goes to the same pub (and knows) the father of the owner of the KPGenius account, Mr Bailey. One wonders just how much Agnew, Broad, Swann or Bresnan know about this twitter account (other than nothing at all, of course).

  • Both the KPGenius and the Textgate affairs were ridiculous, in my opinion, and for the same reason.

    People bitch about their colleagues, especially if that person is in a senior position and especially if that person is a strong personality. We’ve all done it. It’s normal.

    I think it’s entirely possible that Broad, Bresnan and Swann didn’t actually physically contribute to the KPGenius tweets, but surely they must have had a good moan/laugh about KP a few times in the hearing of Broad’s friend Mr Bailey? Just as KP must have had a whine or two at the IPL about Strauss’s conservatism. Unfortunately, in both cases somebody was around to pick up those bits of everyday disgruntledness and use them later.

    Pietersen is quite right to complain that the two events were treated differently. They were both silly occurrences, though likely to disrupt the team, and should have been dealt with in a mature way. Pietersen should have been helped to understand that there was no real hatred behind the KPGenius tweets and Strauss should have been helped to understand that somebody in the SA camp was playing games to destabilise his relationship with KP. Instead, one event was supposedly solved by statements of non-involvement, despite evidence to the contrary, and the other was turned into an operatic saga of disgrace and banishment.

    Two footnotes to this: 1) Mr Bailey appears to be an odd young man. Why did he so persistently boast to Alec Stewart, whom he didn’t know, about the KPGenius account?
    2) In this day and age of international cricketers, does anybody really seriously believe that ‘Textgate’ was the only time players on opposing sides have communicated in a friendly way during a match or series? in 2006/7 Flintoff was going out drinking with the Australians and sitting in their dressing-room for a chat – it wasn’t approved, since we were being slaughtered, but he wasn’t banished for it.

    • Certain players can get away with almost anything, others are crucified at the least opportunity. Flintoff going drinking with the Aussies a prime example – from memory, wasn’t it the evening of the Adelaide disaster that he spent in the Australian dressing room getting pissed with them? Hardly reported at the time, but if Pietersen had done it he never would have played for England again.

      1998 football world cup against Argentina, Beckham is sent off for something that wasn’t even a foul, Shearer elbows someone in the head nowhere near the ball while Campbell scores what would have been the winning goal – result is that Beckham is pilloried, Shearer exonerated. It’s not just the ECB who like to have scapegoats.

      As a thin-skinned, cocky South African Pietersen was always going to be a target; and post-IPL and captaincy, when he was in conflict with the ECB hierarchy, their friends in the media didn’t need much justification for sticking the knife in.

      • Thanks for your excellent comment, Nick, and you hit the nail fairly on the head.

        It would be easy to think, if you read this particular blog, that I am an obsessive devotee of Pietersen himself. Not the case. Rather, I am just incensed by the injustice with which he’s been treated by the cricket authorites and the galling extent of their double standards,

        The ‘in-crowd’, the good old boys of Swann, Broad, Anderson, Cook, Prior – are untouchable. But whenever Pietersen stepped a millimetre out of line, they came down on him like a ton of bricks.

        Imagine if it had been Pietersen who had done this (thanks to THA for the link)

        http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/i-cuffed-michael-clarke-in-adelaide-dressing-room-says-james-anderson-20121012-27hdz.html

    • Thanks for this excellent comment, Zeph, which covers so much ground so perceptively.

      I love the phrase “operatic saga of disgrace and banishment”.

      Pietersen has been melodramatic about KP Genius, but who can blame him when the text ‘scandal’ was so ridiculously overblown.

      Does anyone think this was the first time in history a cricketer moaned about a team-mate to a friend in the opposing side? It must happen all the time. Pietersen was just the one who got pilloried for it.

      Had Ian Bell texted, say, a New Zealander saying ‘Strauss was a pain in the arse today’, would anyone have cared.

      A few harmless private texts were elevated to the level of sport’s greatest betrayal, simply because some people hated Pietersen and enjoyed having a stick to beat him with.

      He’s been evasive about them in interviews this week, which admittedly hasn’t helped but that might partly be because he doesn’t want to land the recipient in trouble.

      Anderson hits and swears at opponents. Flintoff turned up for nets drunk, when captain. Graham Gooch abandoned his team for apartheid rand. But that was all fine.

  • Classic establishment technique for shutting down debate or changing the subject. Rope the Royal family in. That always acts as a good distraction.

    And remember that Waitrose stepped in to financially help Prince Charles with his Duchy of Cornwall food line that was failing in other outlets. A massive deal was done between the Prince and Waitrose. One part of the deal was the the Prince would attend dinners for top executives of the supermarket.

    Just google Duchy of Cornwall and Waitrose. There is a whole lot of controversy over that deal.

    • Here’s an example…..

      NEW QUESTIONS have been raised over the relationship between the Prince of Wales and Waitrose and a property deal that would transform the east of Truro.

      It has emerged that Prince Charles paid more than £38 million for a depot in Milton Keynes used by the chain. The Duchy of Cornwall, which represents the Prince’s business interests, is a key player in the Truro Eastern District Centre (TEDC) project that would see a Waitrose built along with a park and ride, 110 homes and a recycling centre at the junction of Union Hill and Newquay Road.

      A spokesman for the Prince dismissed any presumed connection between the duchy and Waitrose as “coincidence”.

      The deal for the duchy to buy the 396,000sq ft warehouse at Milton Keynes was completed 18 months ago at a cost of £38,385,500, as reported by the Independent newspaper.

      Waitrose leases it as a lorry distribution hub.

      Plans for the controversial TEDC were approved by Cornwall Council in March 2012 but that planning consent now faces a judicial review brought by Truro City Council.

      Read more: http://www.westbriton.co.uk/New-questions-relationship-Prince-Charles/story-19339931-detail/story.html#ixzz3FeW6ajB7

  • As usual, first with the scoops – an as yet non appearing ECB cricket director has been found in the bottom of his garden … hello Andy Flower … what do you think of Kevin’s book Andy …. Andy ……

  • Apart from being Twitter quitters, the thing in which Agnew and Mike Selvey have in common is that they are pretty good cricket minds with a good turn of phrase, thus well suited to columns, but low quality as actual reporter/journalists. Agnew claims to be a balanced reporter, but he also holds a clear position like a columnist/pundit would. Is this a peculiarity of sports journalism? You would never hear Nick Robinson taking a line like a newspaper leader. Agnew does it every day in KP vs ECB. For whatever reason, be it lack of intellectual chops, or undeveloped critical thinking skills due to not going to university, he and Selvey have failed to navigate this contradiction in the way Atherton does successfully, and when anyone pushes back at them and they get into arguments they cannot win they get prickly, upset defensive and lose it. I have seen this time and time again. Also, they have not played for any sustained amount of time in international cricket (nor have I!), but the heightened dynamics and egos of that environment may be a different kettle of fish to the county dressing room. I don’t know for sure, but in my view it is for this group of reasons I think Agnew and Selvey get unstuck.

    Agnew’s behaviour on Twitter is a disgrace. he blocked me simply because I robustly but politely disagreed with him about something last year. I have never been blocked by anyone before or since. As a long time TMS fan, I was stunned. Also he is very poor on KP vs ECB. he is clearly very pro-ECB and anti-KP, accepting Flower et al at their word without question, and rejecting KP’s statements and assassinating his character out of hand. that is straight-up incompetent journalism – he lacks balance and has failed to sceptically investigate/corroborate both sides. on this evidence he is not up to scratch as a BBC correspondent, national treasure or not. He should stick to TMS and be replaced as cricket correspondent, and I must complain to the BBC about him.

    Ironically, if you think about it, Agnew’s approach to Twitter (disagreement = rudeness = banned, but me being condescending, biased and belligerent is ok) is very similar to how KP describes the Flower/Prior environment. People in position of power enforcing their will by fear, bullying and belittlement.

    did you hear Agnew yesterday on 5Live, commenting after KP’s interview, when he knew KP was listening? there’s a clip on the BBC website. Agnew complains about rudeness but listen his astonishingly condescending tone on KP, assassinating his character. and I quote directly “you look at Kevin – here’s a confident brash so and so with his sunglasses on and his big smile, but actually he is really quite an insecure person I think… He is an anxious, nervous character and I think that showed very strongly in that interview” when he knew KP was listening!

    And then going after KP’s wife on twitter, arguing illogically and incompetently about KPGenius then telling her to “drop the attitude”. how is that not “rude”, and “bullying”, the thing he decries and blocks his own fans on twitter for? It was astonishing to hear how misjudged it was.

    The end of the road for Agnew as cricket correspondent at least, maybe at the BBC, surely? He complains people are “out to get him”. Indeed I am, but purely on grounds of competence. No one has any god given right to a job for life. Particularly seeing as we pay the licence fee, and therefore (indirectly) his salary.

    • I understand that there’s a strong body of opinion at the BBC that sees cricket as an outdated, fogeyish sport that is only followed by old people and is suitably covered on the radio by Aggers and Blowers and Tuffers who ramble on while their devoted admirers send them cake.
      If their cricket correspondent acts like a tetchy prep-school headmaster on Twitter, it will be only what they expect.

    • I’m intrigued that you conflate adequate critical thinking skills with having gone to University.

      You only have to take stock of some of the leading university educaated politicians on display in England and Australia to give the lie to that particular piece of faulty reasoning.

      Was there a humorous undertone or some irony in this remark that I missed?

      If so I apologise, you can put it down to the lack of a university education.

      • You didn’t have to tell us you didn’t go to university Ian. We know – you’re Australian.

        Who else misses the old days on cricket blogs, when we could pretend we hated fans of other cricket teams? Anybody?

        Thanks for the recommend the other day, btw. :)

        • I may now withhold further recommendations until you personally fly down here and apologise to me for the slur on my lack of education.while of course i will be able to retweet what you have said and add some salacious gossip to my tweets. Just to have a bit of fun you understand.

          ;-)

      • No irony whatsoever. And I am not “conflating” 2 things, it is cause and effect: an activity (university study) improves a skill (critical thinking). I don’t agree that it is intriguing. It is a well-known concept and the key skill improved by university study.

        I am not suggesting that only people with a university education excel at critical thinking. It is perfectly possible for people to have natural ability at it, or to learn it through other activities: work, self-study etc. I am just casting around informally for reasons why they struggle and Atherton does not, not testing this theory in the strict logical sense.

        Just because you disagree with some politicians does not prove that they lack good critical thinking skills. Even if some individual one are relatively lacking, that doesn’t prove that university study does not improve them in general.

    • Many thanks for your post. At the risk of being pedantic, Mike Selvey did go to university (Cambridge) although I’m not sure everyone would agree you need a degree to be an effective journalist.

      What you *do* need, though, is proper experience and training in how news works, and on a general level you can’t help but feel cricket journalism is the poorer for having so many ex-pros and so few career journalists.

      The ex-pros clearly know the game (and the people) better than non-specialists, and they are as clever and can write as well as the ‘proper’ hacks.

      But their closeness to the players and administrators can often be as much as weakness as a strength.

      Because they usually go straight from playing to journalism, they have very little experience of the real world outside professional cricket. They haven’t done the hard yards as a junior reporter in a newsroom, learning the trade – the dynamics and mechanics of how news works. And it shows.

      • Oh yes I remember now Selvey DID go to Cambridge, oops! I remember being shocked to find that out. Not pedantic at all, that’s a howler be me! I’m certainly not saying that a degree is needed – e.g. John Humphrys! I’m just casting around for reasons why critical thinking is lacking.

        How about this tweet Agnew on Tues “read today’s Mail. Confirmed there too, not that it needed to be! Why would cook and flower not tell me truth?!” as he did on Tues, before laying into KP again, and then his wife. I’m pretty sure that is not the BBC reporter’s handbook for how to sceptically corroborate both sides of a story to get to the truth.

        • The ‘Flower brought back Pietersen’ saga has rolled on for weeks and was at the centre of our dispute with him. Graeme Swann knocked it back, as did Pietersen himself.

        • “How about this tweet Agnew on Tues “read today’s Mail. Confirmed there too, not that it needed to be! How about this tweet Agnew on Tues “read today’s Mail. Confirmed there too, not that it needed to be!”

          Today’s Mail. Well, that’ll certainly silence the sceptics.

    • Some of the things you touch on were discussed in my interview with JA:

      https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/jonathan-agnew-interview/

      The waters of his role are muddied by the fact he is three things – a correspondent, a pundit, and a freelance. The BBC wanted him to be a freelance rather than staff – as he explained – which casts him in the role more of ‘talent’ than broadcast journalist., It also means he needs to work for other clients the rest of the time.

      These are three quite difficult plates for him to spin simultaneously and I sympathise with some of the difficulties of balancing these roles.

      I suppose what interested me in last night’s row with Mrs P is that the similarities it bore to our argument with him last month. In both cases, he became very voluble and intense about a very specific point – and a point in which he appeared to have personal investment in the form of insider knowledge. When he found that his audience were resisting his view or not taking it as seriously as he wished, he reacted rather emotionally.

      • Isn’t the whole “freelance” thing just a way he can bill the BBC for his services as a company and avoid paying quite as much tax as if he were a normal employee? If he has trouble balancing these roles, he could always just become a proper BBC journalist . . . but then the BBC might not be quite so sanguine about him commenting on the England Cricket Team sponsored by Waitrose and simultaneously being sponsored by Waitrose to appear in adverts….
        Not that I’m casting aspersions on his moral compass, or implying that money is the only thing that drives him. Oh no. We know that it’s only KP who has his eye on the pound sign.
        Sorry, think I’ve probably drifted away from the main issue there.

        • In the interview he said it was what the BBC wanted. They took him on 22 years ago, so things might have changed, but they don’t need a full time cricket correspondent, so it’s probably cheaper for them this way. How he’s paid is his business, though, really.

      • insider knowledge is fine if you then corroborate and test it, and treat both sides of the situation equally. I don’t think it is impossible to navigate this, as I said Atherton does it perfectly well for the Times and Sky. When you challenge Agnew on any of this he characterises it as impugning his integrity. Well, (a) no it isn’t, his bias might be subconscious or an inability on his part to grasp what he is doing wrong, i.e. it may be incompetence (which I believe it is) and (b) nobody has the inherent right not to have their integrity questioned, because some people lack integrity, and those people hardly go around admitting they lack integrity, and lacking integrity is a perfectly arguable way to explain his wonky reporting, though I don’t believe it to be the case for Agnew.

  • Question: “do you get some sort of perverted gratification from going around stirring up trouble”

    Answer: “why yes sir”

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