You’ll no doubt have heard that Colin Graves, the new head honcho of English cricket, made a few interesting remarks about former England cricketer, author and freelance T20 specialist Kevin Pietersen at the weekend.
Twitter literally exploded. KP is, after all, England’s leading ever run scorer and one of the most entertaining yet divisive sportsmen on the planet.
The reaction was mixed. Many, including a number of high profile journalists, recoiled in horror: “God help us all if Beelzebub – that malevolent snake – returns from the underworld”.
Numerous others, no doubt influenced by the dubious leaks that have tarnished Pietersen’s reputation over the last twelve months, also put the boot in: ‘why recall an odious ego that’s alienated everyone he’s ever played with and has a terrible relationship with Cook?” Except that he hasn’t and he doesn’t.
The other side were equally vociferous in their defence of KP. Many see Pietersen as a hero or even an underdog: an individual prepared to risk all by defying the tyrannical ECB and their primary acolyte, Andy Flower OBE (a man who ironically has a history of defying tyrants rather than working for them).
Obviously Sky did their best to stir things up by inviting Pietersen to talk (via telephone) on The Verdict show. England’s bowlers had just been demolished by Sri Lanka, so it somehow followed that a 34-year old batsman would solve all the team’s ills.
The funniest moment of the interview was when Charles Colville, a broadcaster whose style is more abrasive than KP and Vinod Kambli combined, asked Pietersen whether he’d cancel his IPL contract to play county cricket.
What followed was a mini-stand off in which KP should have said “hmmm, that’s a toughie Charles, would you sacrifice a million quid to play in the rain at Durham in May?” Instead they both danced around the question while Nick Compton, Grumpy Bob and Butch looked on amused.
When asked whether KP should come back into the side, Compton quickly grabbed his diplomatic hat and explained (reading between the lines) that KP would be a welcome addition to the side if he could be reintegrated into a dressing room that presumably isn’t always welcoming. Thanks heavens there’s lots of new players and the dynamic has changed.
Bob Willis’s contribution was to grimace even more than usual, while Mark Butcher eased the tension in typical fashion by acting like the good old boy he is. Butch made the excellent point that KP’s unlikely to sacrifice anything until he knows that Graves’ olive branch – which might not actually be an olive branch anyway – is genuine.
My personal view on KP is that stories about his disruptive nature were overblown. He routinely fell out with boards, and sometimes coaches (although not Duncan Fletcher and Graham Ford), but more players seemed to like him than dislike him – judging by the snippets that reach the public domain.
Strauss was obviously upset by textgate, and the bowlers clique didn’t like him much (although apparently there was a batsmen / bowler divide across the whole dressing room anyway) but KP was mates with the bowlers from Vaughan’s era: Simon Jones, Harmison, Hoggy, Giles and Freddie all said complimentary things about him after the Ashes.
Most importantly the young players in England’s Ashes side – Root, Stokes, Bairstow – all spoke very highly of KP (as did Monty, Tremlett and Carberry). England’s new dressing room is full of these newer players. As Nick Compton pointed out, somebody as positive and experienced as Pietersen would probably be a good influence on the team.
The problem with a KP recall, as I see it, is the lack of obvious test places up for grabs. I’m not too fussed about Pietersen playing county cricket to prove himself – he’s scored over 13,500 international runs so his pedigree is well known – it’s more a matter of whether England should go back to the future.
If Pietersen can prove his fitness (and I would give him a thorough fitness test rather than making him play weeks of county cricket) I think he should be seriously considered for selection. The trouble is who do you drop? Ballance, Bell, Root and Moeen all merit a place in the side. This might change as the summer goes on, but at the moment there simply isn’t room for KP.
The limited overs stuff, however, is a different kettle of fish. I would welcome Pietersen into England’s ODI and T20 sides with open arms, a manly hug and a bottle of champagne.
England desperately need a number three at the moment. KP would walk into the side and possibly even win us a quarter-final. He looked in excellent form during the Big Bash. The only real obstacle, of course, is the presence of Paul Downton and Peter Moores.
Although Graves said it’s up to the selectors whether to pick Pietersen, I firmly believe that Whitaker will do as he’s told. The real problem is the worst England coach of his generation and a beleaguered MD who’s out of his depth.
The other matter to consider is Pietersen’s autobiography. Has he burned too many bridges within the dressing room? This one is hard to judge.
On the positive side Andy Flower is no longer England coach and might not survive another disastrous tour down under. Meanwhile, Matt Prior is possibly more interested in his new cycling venture than playing for England again. That just leaves Broad and Anderson.
Can Pietersen and our opening bowlers let bygones by bygones? I have no idea to be honest. However, considering that Broad was captured partying with KP in Adelaide last winter, and bemoaned his absence from the T20 team soon after the Ashes, I’m guessing this relationship can be repaired.
Similarly, I saw Jimmy talking about KP to Claire Balding on BT Sport a couple of months ago and there didn’t seem too much bad blood – although it’s hard to tell whether Anderson was simply toeing the party line.
We’ve already had one relatively successful ‘reintegration’ episode after textgate. According to Graeme Swann the relationship between Pietersen and the other players was fine – although we now know the bad blood with Flower continued. An optimist would argue that Pietersen can be reintegrated again.
The flipside, however, is that this all seems rather desperate. Perhaps the urge to restore KP to our limited overs sides comes from sheer exasperation after a humiliating run of defeats? Is this emotional time really the best moment to weigh up Pietersen’s future?
What’s more it seems hypocritical to harangue the selectors for failing to prepare us for the World Cup, but simultaneously advocate the recall of someone who will be almost 39 when the next tournament comes around.
It’s a tricky dilemma. What do you think?
James Morgan
No chance, who would he room with on tour?
Bairstow!
Agree, do we really need him now? The England team have to look forward and move on. I would rather have him involved in the coaching set up as he has a lot to offer.
I saw him playing for Surrey in the T20 last summer and his knees looked shot. I’m sure they are more suited to the warm climes of Australia and India.
Either way it does show the ECB does not seem to know it’s arse from it’s elbow..
Totally agree about the coaching in the long term, he obviously has a talent for it and is keen to help younger players.
“The England team have to look forward and move on”.
How about we just try to win the next match in front of us by picking the strongest team available rather than endlessly planning for a glorious future that never arrives? If we must plan for the future let’s start with the 2017 CT in England rather than worrying about 2019.
We’ve just had our arses handed to use by a SL side containing a 38 year old (Dilshan), two 37 year olds (Sanga and Mahela) and a 36 year old (Herath). Before that we lost to NZ with Vettori (26) and before that Australia with Haddin (37). There may be a lesson there…..
Dan Vettori lost a decade there – wouldn’t put it past him!
His knees were shot – apparently they are rather better after surgery.
In any event, I agree with Simon – why can’t we just pick our best 11 ?
It was stupid to abandon that principle.
Because the best are not from “the kind of family from the right kind of background!” Howzat?
Thanks for the agreement Nigel! However I don’t think he has had knee surgery – he claimed rest had significantly improved his knees. I watched quite a bit of the Big Bash and thought his movement didn’t look great initially but it definitely improved as the tournament progressed. (Perhaps you were thinking of Broad who did have knee surgery?).
He should have to prove his fitness in a rigorous fitness test. The disaster with Prior showed the foolishness of letting senior players themselves decide if they are fit. But it should be the same for all players – how fit is Anderson currently for example?
What do I think? Jesus, the best player we’ve had………ever and a dressing room who seems happy to have him back. Downton/Moores will have to go though if he is brought back
Kevin Pietersen should be available for selection on the same terms as every other qualified player, i.e. based on what’s known about his ability, potential, fitness and current form. If he’s selected and doesn’t perform or isn’t fit, he should be dropped again, just like any other player.
And it should be publicly acknowledged that declaring that a player will never again be selected for his country, without any convincing explanation or justification, was an appalling piece of mismanagement which will not be repeated, ever.
Absolutely gift Zepirine. But we mustn’t let the truth get in the way of Downtown’s innuendo and downright lies, must we?
Oh come on! It was an (unnecessary) tragedy that we lost this guy, but let’s move on. Of course he’s not The Devil, just a bolshy, egocentric South African who has disqualified himself from future consideration by textgate and the book. Funnily enough we don’t actually need another batsman, but even if we did, the time has passed. This World Cup looks as though it may turn out to be an embarrassment for England but let’s move forward not backwards. It would be as absurd to recall KP now as it would be to replace the obviously-inadequate Morgan as ODI captain with the recall of Cooky.
After a decent pause respectful of the fact that these guys are trying their level best, sack Morgan and make Root ODI/T20 Captain, commit to Cooky as Test Captain (whatever his form with the bat, surely the most effective way of his regaining form!) sack Moores and say goodbye to Downton and, if you really want a cum-by-yah moment around the campfire, work out a way to involve KP as an ODI/batting coach.
Then leave well alone for long enough to allow undoubted talent to come to the boil.
“commit to Cooky as Test Captain (whatever his form with the bat, surely the most effective way of his regaining form!)”
Has he just been teasing us for the last two years then?
Commit to Cooky as Test Captain? I think not. We need someone who has a good cricket mind and doesn’t need propping up (or down whatever you want to call it) by the senior players who are, incidentally, well out of form.
Not a chance.
Is he one of the 6 best English qualified test batsmen?
Yes. End of debate.
WAS he one of England’s best 6 batsmen. Yes. Although in recent years he was behind Cook, Bell and Trott.
Is he any more – doubtful.
Depends how you judge it. The centuries in Leeds, Colombo, and Mumbai were in his last eighteen months as a player and were among the finest innings ever played.
The other three were more perhaps consistent in recent times (although Cook and Trott both dropped off at a similar rate over the last few years) but could any of them played the innings at Headingley? Not a chance.
He was also injured, thanks to Flower and his ridiculous regime.
He’s not anymore.
Behind Cook? don’t make me laugh.
For a start, it wasn’t Flower who sets the international schedule, so you can hardly blame him – blame the ECB by all means, but not Flower. If you look at it, Pietersen’s schedule was managed more than any other England cricketer – he was given time off to play IPL, he didn’t play all of England’s ODIs in latter years.
During England’s successful years between 2009 and 2013, Cook scored about 16 test centuries, Bell about a dozen and Trott about 9, all at significantly higher averages than KP.
Of course KP’s 100s are much more memorable than a Cook effort, but cricket isn’t just about memorable innings, it’s about being effective and getting results, and for an extended period, Cook and Trott were the anchors that everybody else played around in that successful side.Of course Cook’s form has fallen off a cliff, but let’s not re-write history. In the grand scheme of things, KP stands above Cook in terms of shot-making ability and entertainment, but during England’s most successful period of cricket in decades (2009 – 2013), the key batsmen were Cook and Bell.
THA, you’re absolutely right, the others couldn’t have played the innings that KP played, but I would say that very few could have played some of the innings that Alistair Cook played, and I would argue that the Alistair Cook innings, while not as exciting or interesting to watch, were every bit as important to England wins. Whatever his technical flaws, he was a mighty effective runmaker.
KP’s golden period was pre-2009, which is why I’m sceptical about bringing him back now. In an ideal world, he would have played last years T20 world cup and be playing now, but it’s gone, wherever the blame may lie.England have to start looking towards the 2019 world cup
If he gets back into county cricket and scores a stack of runs in T20, LV Cup and/or county championship, then I’ll happily change my mind, but I’m hugely skeptical.
Fantastic post Hamish. A great read. The facts without favour.
I’m sorry Jenny but these aren’t the facts. Cook’s record in 4 out of 5 Ashes series has been abysmal and he averages significantly lower against the top sides whilst cashing in against the top ones. Read my article on The Cult of Alastair Cook. Trott has also struggled against South Africa.
Hamish provides a fantastic alternative view on this site, and I really enjoy his comments, but on this occasion I cannot agree. I’m not KP’s biggest fan as I’m a purist who prefers orthodoxy etc, but KP has consistently produced match winning innings against top bowling. With the exception of his problems against left arm spin (which was a tad weird) his down periods have coincided with major injuries like his achilles problems and more recently his knee. Now the latter has been fixed he seems in good form again.
Re: Bell, who is one of my favourite players, it was consistently said throughout England’s fat years that he only really cashed in when the team was in a strong position. Remember all the talk about ‘Bell only gets a ton when another player also gets a ton at the same time’. It was only really in the home Ashes of 2013 that he laid this to rest. Of course, this series was probably the start of England’s decline.
I meant cashing in against the weak sides while struggling against the big guns. Go and check out the stats guru. Pietersen’s averages against Australia, South Africa and Pakistan are all noticeably better than Cook’s. In fact, any team with good fast bowlers I recall. It’s in the Cult of Alastair Cook comments thread too.
Like Tregaskis I am not one for numbers. I watch the games and follow my nose.
I did read your article on the Cult of Alistair Cook. I was going to read it again and comment. Being on holiday I’m ‘in and out’ so my responses are rather sporadic. Will you be kind enough to post a link to your Cook article. It will save me digging it out again and I’m sure others will enjoy it.
Hamish is a great favourite of mine. He is both measured and balanced. It’s always good to hear him speak.
https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/the-cult-of-alastair-cook/
Hi Jenny. Link is above. Hope you’re enjoying your time away.
Thanks for the link.
There is one other thing that I forgot to mention about the KP sacking. It was rumoured in the press at the time that he was causing division between the younger players and Alistair Cook. There is no way of knowing whether anything like this is true, but causing division is a different thing to sacking someone because you don’t like them or they are difficult to manage. It might go some way to explaining the ‘positive influence’ thing. Who knows? Without the facts we can only speculate.
Excellent article James. I take your point about the averages, they certainly tell us a lot. Never the less Cook has been a stalwart of the English cricket team since he was a kid. He is clearly well liked and doesn’t seem to have caused days trouble to anyone. I doubt that he sought the responsibility that was placed on his shoulders. He was pilloried for being the favourite son as much as for any of his failings. What resounded with me most about your article were your final words. Thanks for that. A pleasure as always James.
Thanks Jenny. I think Pietersen might have had a lot of sway with the younger players, because quite a few came out and backed him after his sacking. I also know he told Cook he strongly disagreed with the decision to do extra fitness sessions before the Sydney test. Perhaps the young players felt the same way (it was a daft idea anyway) and they felt this was undermining the captain.
Interestingly, Nick Compton said on Sky the other day that KP would be a good influence in the current dressing room because he’s so positive and commands respect. This backs up my hypothesis that he was sacked for two primary reasons: (a) to bolster a weak captain who was losing his influence, (b) as a convenient scapegoat (AF was never going to blame his own stale methods, so he blamed KP instead. Downton, who’d been outside the loop for ages, relied on AF’s testimony 100%.
Can’t agree with you there James. I don’t think it was an issue of finding a scapegoat for the Ashes whitewash. Very difficult to make a scapegoat of your top scorer. I think the reasons were far more personal than that.
I think that’s a spectacularly unfair assessment, and I find this continual downgrading of Cook’s achievements a real blind spot on this site, while explaining away any of KP’s fragilities down to injury or Andy Flower, Peter Moores, Giles Clarke or Mike Selvey or whoever is in the TFT firing line at the time.
I’ve never said that Cook is the greatest batsman of all time, but to say he’s some kind of flat track bully is just not right. He has been a mightily effective run-maker and opening bat for England, and Pietersen and others have greatly benefited from the solidity he’s provided at the top – I think KP made more runs with Cook at the other end than anybody else.
He averages around 40 against both Australia and South Africa, and in 66 innings has gone past 50 21 times. As an opener against the best opening bowlers around, that is definitely not a poor return. In 14 innings opening up against Dale Steyn, he’s gone past 50 6 times. That is not ‘abysmal’
You also conveniently forget his record against India, who at various points have been No 1 ranked test team in the world – his performance in India in 2012 was exceptional, and laid the foundation of England’s 1st win out there since the 80s.
As for Iain Bell, the criticism was well justified in his early England career, however he has been England’s best batsman since he came back into the side in 2009, starting with his effort in South Africa in Durban. 2013 was his high point, but there have been plenty along the way, especially since 2009, which is kind of what my original point was.
Again, as I said originally, looking back over their whole careers, KP has definitely been a more destructive and match-turning batsman, but most of that success was pre-2009.
To underestimate the contribution of Cook’s runs at the top of the order is a bit ridiculous – is it any coincidence that England’s slide in form has coincided with Cook’s horrible run? Whether his slide is terminal is yet to be seen, but his value as an opener has been huge.
Hi Hamish. I said Cook’s form in 4 out of 5 Ashes series has been ‘abysmal’. His overall record is good, but far from great by current standards. His test average of 46 is about the 18th best in the world (which would make him approx the 3rd best player in an average test side).
His return against South Africa and Pakistan is average. I agree that his form on the India tour was remarkable, and one of the greatest performances I’ve seen from an England captain away from home. However, this performance was possible because Cook is a better player of spin than he is of pace.
If you go through all his test centuries innings by innings, you’ll find he has only scored two or three tons against what could be considered excellent pace attacks. The same, incidentally, is true of Trott.
Cook has never been my favourite player (ever since I saw him as Eng U19 captain) and I make no apologies for that. I think he is somewhat overrated (although perhaps the same could be said of ALL England batsmen including Pietersen) and he would not have scored anywhere near the amount of runs he’s scored had he been born ten years earlier. I am not alone in this assessment. Michael Holding thinks the same. His technique is very frail. Most Australians feel the same way.
My position on Cook is well known and it’s all in my Cult of Cook article linked above. I am not in any way trying to diminish Cook’s contribution to English cricket. However, I do think you are overstating it. His contribution has been no bigger than Bell’s (who has scored his runs at the same rate and average) yet Bell is constantly put down and considered a disappointment by many.
Fair enough about the abysmal comments.
I actually find his achievements admirable because he is limited. Certain players you admire for their effortlessness and elegance (Gower, Vaughan), for their power / self belief (KP, Viv), for their classic technique (Bell, Sanga) and some for their sheer cussed nature and mindset that somehow gets it done (Cook, Graeme Smith and others). I’ve actually found it fascinating in the last year watching the struggles of a man trying to fight his way back into form (not in the ODI side, that has just been ugly!), especially in the light of all that went on with the Ashes and KP. That ugly 95 at Southampton was pure theatre for all the wrong reasons. Maybe I’m just perverse – I actually secretly enjoyed the way that Trott used to scrape his mark over and over – you could tell it was like nails down a blackboard for the oppo wk and slips……
At the end of the day, it’s not how, it’s how many. Much as I love a Bell cover drive, the mental battles are as much what make test cricket the game it is.
As for the definition of what’s a strong pace attack and how Cook would have fared 10 / 20 years ago, it’s a bit academic because nobody knows, not even Michael Holding, how he would have got on if presented with those challenges. How would any of the current crop of international batsmen got on? As for the quality of the pace attacks he’s faced, his incredible Ashes performance 4 years ago was against an Australian attack that contained Siddle, Johnson and Harris (3 tests) who destroyed us last year, yet it seems to be downplayed.
As for his average, in terms of openers over the last 10 years, he’s right up there. Few openers average 50 over a career.
As for Cook and Bell, I think it’s clear to all that Cook has absolutely wrung the absolute maximum out of himself and his career, whereas you could argue that Bell has not quite reached the heights that his talent possibly deserved. I think Bell will never shake off the early career fragility that blighted his first few years.
I find myself defending Cook, not because I think he is the greatest batsman, but because I feel there’s a lack of balance in the assessment of his contribution as an opener, mainly because of the KP situation. It was not of Cook’s making, he just happened to be driving the bus when the wheels finally came off, which they always seemed destined to do after 2009.
Other than our views on the Aussie 2010/11 attack, in which Mitch was awful, Siddle ok and Hilfenhaus ineffective (Harris didn’t play much I recall), our views are actually pretty much in line! I also see Cook as limited but admire his mental strength and powers of concentration. If the mainstream media shared your (and my) assessment of Cook, then there would be no beef whatsoever. The problem in my opinion is that they don’t: they’ve always portrayed him as some kind of golden balls, and earmarked him for greatness ever since he was playing in the junior ranks. I’ve never really understood this as I was rather underwhelmed when I saw him as an U19 player. I didn’t think he looked as good as either Tresco (or even Anthony McGrath) at that age – yet the hype was sky high.
Some of the drivel that’s been written about Cook over the years is astounding. It’s like a collective man crush. I don’t think I’ve ever read a single article by a broadsheet journalists expressing the sentiment that Cook is limited and simply makes the best of his low ceiling as a player. I can only attribute this to some kind of old school elitism as I think it stems from his ability to speak well, look the part, and …. well, we all know what Giles Clarke said about his family.
I actually think Cook has benefited from a huge amount of favouritism throughout the years. He was earmarked as captain, despite showing no aptitude for the job, and gets a much longer leash that other players when he goes through his prolonged periods of poor form (which has happened two or three times in his career). I can’t speak for the commenters on this blog, but if there is a prejudice against Cook in my own articles, it stems from this – and certainly not from the KP situation. Although I think Pietersen was sacked harshly, I’ve always had mixed feelings about KP as a player because of the number of times he got out to daft shots. I personally don’t think Cook had much to do with KP’s sacking anyway. I think he was in a weak position (he knew he was lucky to keep the captaincy) and simply went along with what he was told. And I don’t blame him for it in the circumstances.
Just for the record, both Maxie and I (and this is through coincidence) have both been somewhat underwhelmed by Cook from the beginning. When we launched the blog back in 2009 (I think) Cook was going through a rough time and we wrote a column called ‘What does he have to do to get dropped?’ so it really has nothing to do with Pietersen. That’s the honest truth. I have nothing against Cook personally, and want him to do well, I just get sick of all the platitudes. I’ve just never understood the hype. I’ve always seen a decent / goodish opening test bat who’s not the easiest to watch, and who has a frail technique that makes him vulnerable to world class seam bowling. I certainly don’t see the messiah that the media sees, and never have.
But the English sporting press are always the same when they latch on to a golden boy, be it Beckham, Wilkinson or whoever. English sportsmen are the most over-rated in the world by the media – and because Cook has been destined to break cricketing records since he arrived with such a bang at 21, they’ve loved him
But also, he does deserve the platitudes to a certain extent because of his records. Scoring a ton at 21 in India on debut is pretty special. His form between 2009 and 2013 was spectacular – he even made a decent fist of being a ODI opener for a while, despite having a game palpably unsuited for it.
You guys, and many on here, get too upset by mainstream journalists. I work in media / social media research, and reckon that the amount of web traffic the mail online gets from people who click on stories knowing they’re going to be outraged makes the mail ridiculous amounts of money. They don’t differentiate to their advertisers the percentage of web traffic that hates everything they stand for.
I never read people like Paul Newman or John Etheridge, sometimes read Selvey at the guardian because I’m amused by his curmudgeonly tone but mostly read cricinfo and Aggers. Try it, it does wonders for the blood pressure.
“For a start, it wasn’t Flower who sets the international schedule, so you can hardly blame him – blame the ECB by all means, but not Flower. If you look at it, Pietersen’s schedule was managed more than any other England cricketer – he was given time off to play IPL, he didn’t play all of England’s ODIs in latter years.”
This is somewhat disingenuous. KP was the only player who consistently played all three formats and he played far more games of cricket for England than anyone else. When other players wanted time off – such as Strauss – their schedules were managed and accommodated, whereas KP always played.
Flower can’t be blamed for the schedule, but he can be blamed for the injury management during his tenure. KP’s tussles with Flower about playing injured are well documented. There are obviously those who would choose not to believe Pietersen’s version of events. Others back it up, though. George Dobell described what happened before the Sydney Test. Boyd Rankin injured himself and Flower accused him of being soft, of making it up, and bullied him in to playing anyway. Boyd played and was shocking, clearly unfit, and was humiliated.
Have a look at Flower’s last touring party and find someone who wasn’t playing with a serious injury: Anderson played the Ashes with a broken rib. Swann was picked despite not having recovered from elbow surgery, Prior had a tear in his Achilles, Bresnan was out inured yet was sent on tour anyway, Trott was described by Gooch as being visibly unwell during the 2013 Ashes – Gooch says he raised Trott’s mental health as a concern with Flower, Flower did nothing. Flower used seriously injured players throughout his tenure. Flintoff and Pietersen were hobbling throughout the 2009 series and getting by on cortisone injections. It stayed the same his whole period in charge – using players until they broke.
He didn’t set the schedule, but his management of injuries went beyond negligent to verge on malicious.
Strauss had one series off against Bangladesh if I remember rightly.
In 2009, Flintoff damaged his knee in the IPL – he played through the Ashes because he was retiring.
Pietersen’s achilles injury in 2009 saw him rested from a ODI series in the Windies, after the IPL – the injury was managed but deteriorated in the second test. Achilles injuries are notoriously difficult to predict.
Swann had performed fine in the Ashes 2013 after surgery in March of that year – he was trying to manage it through one last series before retirement.
It’s very easy to sit at your keyboard with the benefit of hindsight and criticise all the decisions. It’s professional sport – all players are playing and managing a level of injury all the time. Very few are ever 100% fit.
Swann performed fine, as he said, when they were bowling Australia out in 25 overs, but wasn’t fit to bowl full-length Tests. He had been over-bowled for years.
“It’s very easy to sit at your keyboard with the benefit of hindsight and criticise all the decisions”
It isn’t hindsight when you can see Prior hobbling around unable to keep or bat properly. It isn’t hindsight when you can see Rankin clearly unfit and unable to bowl yet still selected (which I commented on here at the time), it isn’t hindsight when you can see Pietersen can’t run, can’t field, can hardly bat, and is saying openly that he’s injured, yet he continued to play.
What seems to be easy with hindsight is rationalizing England’s appalling injury management during Flower’s tenure and ignore cricket journalists talking about him bullying injured players in to playing and ridiculing them for being weak. It’s easy, apparently, to ignore Flower’s deputy coach saying that Trott’s mental state was clearly a problem and he had raised it with Flower, yet Flower had ignored it. It’s easy, apparently, to sit at your keyboard and dismiss the pre-existing injury list from the last Ashes as a few niggles to be managed. Was dosing-up your leading bowler to mask the pain of a broken rib in four Test matches just managing an injury, or was it just continuing the pattern of sucking every last drop out of the best players with no consideration for the long-term effects?
Yes, Strauss skipped Bangladesh. He was also allowed to drop ODIs without any of the ridiculous fuss that Pietersen had to go through. Pietersen played more games of international cricket than virtually anyone on Earth. Only MSD was close. And for large parts of that he was clearly injured, complaining he needed rest and/or an operation, but carried on playing anyway.
Pietersen played 277 international matches between 2004 and 2014, that puts him about 9th on the list, almost 100 matches behind Dhoni, Sanga, and well behind others.
I say again, it was not Flower’s schedule and what was he meant to do? Go to Australia for the Ashes and leave half his team at home?
As for rationalizing the injury management, any manager has to rationalise the decisions they take, and sport and sports management is notoriously short term, so show me a manager / coach that won’t patch his players up and send them out for as long as possible.
It’s a fact of life that professional sportsmen play with injuries – Botham played most of his career managing the effects of back surgery, Atherton had a dodgy back. It’s an attritional sport but results are key. Players are strapped up and sent out. It’s wrong and short-term, but they’re very well paid, and many players are notoriously reluctant to take games off, Anderson being one of them.
And as for Pietersen, I’m sorry, but his case is weakened by the fact that he went off and played IPL. Before the IPL came along, he was a full time England cricketer for 5 years, paid well, and hardly had to play any domestic cricket, despite being a Hampshire player. He signed up to the central contract – nobody forced him to. If you had been paying his wages for 5 years, wouldn’t you be a bit resistant to him leaving the West Indies to go play IPL when the Ashes were imminent and he had a dodgy achilles? Given that both he and Flintoff came back from the IPL injured in 2009, I can understand their position.
Every team has to deal with injury management. Every manager patches players up and sends them out injured. There is a balance, however, and that is a balance Flower repeatedly got wrong. If you have an Atherton or Thorpe – or Michael Clarke – with chronic back conditions which will never get better, do you get physio and pain relief and get the most out of them? Sure, of course. If you have a player with a torn Achilles do you just send him out on the pitch until they can’t move anyway? No, you don’t, because it just gets worse and what may be an easily operated-on and fixed injury becomes career ending
“I say again, it was not Flower’s schedule and what was he meant to do? Go to Australia for the Ashes and leave half his team at home?”
I don’t know, Hamish, that’s tough. When Gooch goes to Flower and tells him that the player who has previously been treated for a mental health condition is visibly unwell and he believes it is a serious issue which needs addressing, what should Flower do? Take him seriously, perform his duty of care and put the player’s health before short term goals? Or completely dismiss him and watch the player unravel in front of millions of people?
When a bowler breaks a rib, what should Flower do? Should he play one of the three fast bowlers sitting on the bench twiddling their thumbs, or should he just dose the bowler up on painkillers and not even send him for an x-ray?
When Rankin reports he is injured and cannot train, what should he do? Pick a different bowler, or humiliate him in front of the team and bully him in to playing anyway? Tough choice.
“As for rationalizing the injury management, any manager has to rationalise the decisions they take, and sport and sports management is notoriously short term, so show me a manager / coach that won’t patch his players up and send them out for as long as possible.”
How about Australia, which rests its bowlers and rotates them even in important games? Australia which makes their best player prove he’s fit before taking the pitch, rather than just pretending he is and playing him anyway?
Flower was a particularly bad offender but English cricket in general has a seriously problem with injury and workload management. The best players are frequently run in to the ground for short-term goals when other countries manage to preserve their best players long term. Vittori is still playing international cricket after 17 years, Swann was completely washed up after five. The dominant Australian side retired at 37/38, ours are knackered at 32/33.
Look at Australia’s back up bowlers and look at England’s. When the replacements are good quality, then you can do it, the English system doesn’t produce sufficient quality.
It seems to me that too many people are putting the cart before the horse. As far as I am concerned, Graves has to sack miscreants within the ECB before the question of Kevin Pietersen’s return can be seriously discussed.
Absolutely right Zero. I think this was merely a shot across the bow at the present incumbents: Downton, Whittaker, Moores. Dangling the chance of KP returning is just a carrot IMO. Of course MS has gone apeshit with his latest insulting and malicious piece and of course the moderators have been ready with the axe. My addition only last 2 minutes. Some very good posts – innocuous to say the least – were gone in a matter of ten minutes or so. Guardian: “comments are free” is not so free – and I am sure you are now more aware than that most. A little while ago I put something up without my usual handle and it is still there. I think they have my number and the number of many other posters.
As you say Zero, there is no way KP would ever come back unless the aforementioned miscreants were sent packing. Now if the three ugly ducklings: Hewey, Lewey and Dewey, were told to sling their hook, there still might not be room for KP, remembering he is much older now. If Graves gets rid of the ugly ducklings then England Cricket might just start to recover. I personally thing Downtown’s days are numbered after Downtown made young Root take his place for the press conference. Me breath is baited.
Yes Annie. I do not trust Graves but let us hope he removes the various wrongdoers from the ECB as soon as possible.
As for Selvey, he has been in my bad book for a very long time. Now, with his latest article, more and more people will realize that he really is a nasty piece of work as I have said before. Sorry you have been moderated but mindless moderation is now quite common on Selvey’s articles.
The Guardian is not what it used to be just as Selvey is not – and never has been – a John Arlott. I learnt a lot from reading the Guardian sports pages in the 60’s and 70’s. But sadly those days are long gone and we are left with miscreants masquerading as journalists.
Oh the late and very great John Arlott. He could make a cloud in the sky sound like poetry. I see that John Etheridge has had a go at Lord Canis!!! Sad really. I have more more than moderated I’ve been removed altogether. I have however written something else that has gone under the radar. I think they have got my name pegged and it doesn’t matter how innocuous it is, it gets removed. Like a lot of other posters. One cannot tell Mr Selvey what they think of his writing but he has carte blanche to attack and be rude and aggressive to anyone he likes. Sad. That’s what it is. Sad. There’s a part of me that feels genuinely sorry for Mr Selvey. He has completely lost the plot and ruined his career as a good writer of cricket.
Cheers Zero. Always good to hear from you.
I have no time for John Etheridge. He is a proven dodger who, despite promises, repeatedly failed to back up his Pietersen “gift” tale. Lord Canis thinks well of him for reasons not known to me. But if I were Lord Canis I would steer well clear of ECB controlled puppets like Etheridge.
Agreed on the three you’ve mentioned there Annie but the one you’ve missed out and who matters more than all of them is Flower. Flower doesn’t have a great deal of day-to-day say in the team (he doesn’t need to with Moores) but the broader, strategic framework they operate within is very much still Flower’s.
As George Dobell said on that superb podcast with Peter Miller, Andy Flower needs to be thanked for his considerable contribution to English cricket and moved on.
“Andy Flower needs to be thanked for his considerable contribution to English cricket and moved on”
ABSOLUTELY! This should definitely have happened after the Ashes, but probably should have happened a year before. The series win in India was an aberration that prolonged what was a steady downward curve in terms of performance. It was clear Flower’s attritional methods were failing in my opinion.
AF was a very good England coach, but be was kept on too long (and is still employed) due to what I see as the ECB’s propensity to stay in its comfort zone and deal with familiar faces it can trust. It’s all too cosy in my opinion, comes across as a club, and this was reflected in the promotion of Whitaker and the appointment of Giles and now Fraser as selectors (ignoring the obvious conflict of interest). Of course, the reappointment of Moores can be seen in the same light.
In many ways I feel sorry for Ashely Giles (although pleased he was overlooked as England coach). He almost played the political game to perfection: retire from playing, get close to the right people, work your way up the ladder, become a selector, manoeuvre yourself into the right position to be ODI coach, say all the right things, never say anything remotely controversial … and then we lost to Holland in the World T20 and it all came tumbling down. No wonder he was rather annoyed. He’d waited years for that job.
I suspect that Graves is distancing himself from the abject failure of the current “new era”, and the decision to dismiss KP in the first place.
What’s completely clear, however, is that there is no way that KP would be able to play under the current coaches. His style is not suited to the current stats-based approach, and sadly Moores & co are using stats because they don’t know any other way of operating. They would have to give KP an exemption from playing by the stats, allow him complete freedom to do what he wants, while drumming misunderstood stats into the heads of the rest.
They simply can’t cope with him. They sacked not because he looked out a window or whatever, but because his style of play proves that their system doesn’t work. And these coaches simply don’t have anything else to offer.
Of course we don’t want him back….why on earth would we want a true match winner in our ranks? Someone with flair, dynamism, excitement. Someone with an ODI average of over 40 – who would want him? I can’t for the life of me see how bringing in the only world-famous name in English cricket at the moment would help at all. Someone who divides opinion but yet fills an otherwise half-full stadium. Some intrigue, some flair? No thank you sir!
I’m perfectly happy with a hum-drum, going-know-where, lacking-any-star-quality, laughing-stock-of-world-cricket team thank you very much.
Yours cluelessly
PIddle Downton
Enjoyed that Joe! :-)
Oh just wonderful. Love it!
Love it!
Could also add “Thinks for himself”
Only time will tell, of course, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if the whole saga ends with KP playing a few more years for England and Downton and Moores looking for new jobs by the end of this summer.
You and James have the same square thingy beside your names! The guess who you are plot thickens!
I think that’s generated randomly Jenny. Or is it ???????
Yes it is :-)
I would love to have him back if only to piss off the media and the other detractors of his.
Oh to have all these “insiders” on the outside with all the cricket “outsiders”. Oh yes bring that on Ian. That would be the ultimate vindication. Picture the scene: Downtown, Selvey, Newman, sitting round a table, drinking and moaning into their beer because they have to buy their own tickets to get into the ground. Fantastic. Bring it on.
Yes, yes, yes…in the T20 and F50 every day of the week. Considering the absolute shellackings we’ve had to endure recently putting in one of the World’s best and win a few matches can come under the heading of consolidation, or stabilisation…what the hell is there to lose? We’ve already gone backwards and continue to pursue losing as an art form!!
The other advantage if KP comes back that everyone is missing. Is that we can start blaming him and him alone for every time England lose and he gets out to s daft shot (again). I kind of miss that…
Thought I’d join the fray after a few months spectating…I fail to see how Ballance merits a place in the side on current form?
….and yes. KP would be near top of my list for all short formats of the game.
JAMES my boy, you are misguided, mis-informed and mistaken! Take it from me that wherever KP has played in England…his colleagues played with him after a time at arms length! He is ok but as we always say ‘in small doses’….he is most definitely hard work! What we all disliked was his arrogant ego entering the dressing room before him…and he never saw it! That was and probably is still his problem.And all those ‘good eggs’ who don’t disprove of him are all the guys that never had to play with him day in day out!
If you were “professional” then ego wouldn’t come into it…it’s his capability that you want on the field….I hear Somerset would snatch his hand off to sign for them!!
The job of a cricketer is to make runs or take wickets and advance a team’s prospects of winning a match. If professional cricketers can’t cope with egos, they’re in the wrong job. If it was alleged that Pietersen was abusive to his team-mates, or a bully, that would be another matter – but it isn’t.
I suspect that where antipathy to Pietersen, as a colleague, has arisen, it’s more than slightly due to jealousy.
But in his book, KP decried Swann, Prior, Broad and Anderson for their massive ‘egos’ – it seemed to be all that was wrong with the England team’s culture in his eyes.
Can’t have it both ways Maxie.
According to Warne, Australia/s great side of the late 1990s all hated each other and rarely socialised. They put differences aside to win test matches. I’m sure Warne himself could have been intolerable much of the time.
But these guys do have massive egos. Always have had.
Too right Maxie. Jealousy is right up there at the top of the list. Some players just cannot stand to have someone with as much flare and ability. Couldn’t stand it. Look at those who have played for England who would have KP in the side: Boycott, Botham, Gough, Flintoff and many more of those “awkward buggers!”
Having a bit of an ego shouldn’t preclude you from selection for your country. In a team sport there is space for all different types of personalities and it is up to the management and captain to get the best out of them. They don’t know how to deal with him, well in my view that is their problem not KP’s. Someone like Vaughan didn’t seem to have too many problems with Pietersen because he knew how to handle him. Who cares if he is arrogant if he gets it done on the pitch. If his form doesn’t warrant selection then don’t pick him, but that should be the only criteria that matters.
He probably couldn’t see it because of all the jealousy and spite that was already in the dressing room. Forgive me for being rude but, I’m certainly not going to take the word of someone who won’t back up what they claim, by identifying who they are. You could well have been the cleaner for all we know. If you are going to say things like that, have the backbone to say it publicly in your own name like KP has done, but I suspect another mediocre yes man is in our midst or I will apologise profusely to you, but I suspect I won’t have to make that apology.
Absolutely right Vanessa with bells on.
Gosh. Are you for real?
I’m sure there are lots of county pros who don’t like KP. I’m sure the opposition hated Brian Lara too (plus some his teammates) when he was scoring big runs against them. However, I can’t agree that things are as clear cut as you say. You may have some insight – it sounds like you’re a current / former player – but it’s obviously codswallop that everyone who played with him hated him.
When England players go on tour with each other they spend ages together, away from their families, so it’s very much a day in day out situation. I know people who have come to blows after spending 48 hours together on club tours, let alone 3 months.
Secondly, many county pros from teams KP played for have come out and said KP is a good teammate, including Carberry, Tremlett and Shaun Udal, who knew him at Hampshire where he was supposed to be an absolute arse if you believe the media. What’s revealing is that Carberry was supposed to be one of the players KP had slagged off … until MC completely denied and said he and KP were still friends!
It’s this kind of misinformation that leaves those of us on the outside extremely sceptical. From everything I’ve read and heard, it sounds to me like KP was more of a pain during his cocky days as a brash young pro. These days he seems a bit insecure. I’m sure he can be hard work (his book demonstrates that it’s very much his way or the highway) but many top class sportsmen are. Just imagine if Ian Bell had half of KP’s arrogance. He’d probably average 55+ in all forms of the game.
I cannot disagree with your response, you are quite right.
What? You mean all those that played with him at Surrey? Well Vaughan didn’t have any problems with managing KP. Nuff said.
Oh well, if a completely anonymous person says he’s a rotter, who are we to argue?
“And all those ‘good eggs’ who don’t disprove of him are all the guys that never had to play with him day in day out!”
So he had the biggest ego in your dressing room. Out of interest, how many people in your dressing room were capable of carting Shane Warne in to the stands in their debut innings? How many of them could have played the innings at Headingley or Mumbai? How many had the character to carry the weight of a nation on their shoulders to play that innings at the Oval?
I find Ian Botham insufferable. Likewise Shane Warne and Michael Clarke. I reckon I’d still have them in the team..
I would say yes. Thank you for asking!
Nick Hoult’s played a blinder….nailed it!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11444865/Why-Kevin-Pietersen-has-been-offered-a-lifeline-by-English-cricket.html
Anything we do now is a knee jerk reaction and won’t change anything. We are going out of this cup, either now, or at the first knockout stage. Nothing we can do to change that now.
I think we need someone outside the current setup to look at everything. I want to know how we got things so right (2009-2011) and how they went so wrong (2011-present) I don’t yet understand how a seemingly great coach in Andy Flower can become so apparently out of ideas in such a short time. I would also like to know how such a rudderless organisation (Australian cricket) can suddenly and completely dominate the world game. I know that some of it is down to personalities but it can’t all be don’t to that. There is so much money being pumped into English cricket at the highest level, our players have the best of everything yet they can’t seem to cope under pressure. We obviously had a winning formula when we won the world T20, what was that formula and what are we doing differently now? We have good players, I would argue that we don’t have many (maybe not any) truly great players. There are no England players in the current side that I would pay money to see play. Buttler is the possible exception to that rule but he fails slightly too often to be considered great by me. I suppose the counter argument is the current New Zealand side who, McCullum excepted, are good but not great. It shows what can be done if you play without fear. They seem to approach every game with a tacit acceptance that losing is always an option. our boys seem in constant fear of losing their places. That can’t be good for the team or for English cricket as a whole.
As for KP, I suspect we haven’t heard the last of that story. I think there may be a way back for him in the limited overs setup but not into the test side. He could be a one day specialist for some time without ever giving him a central contract. Certain Australians have shown that 40 is no barrier to international T20 cricket! I wonder if he may be offered a One day contract by Lancashire where his mate Ashley Giles is coach? They have room in their salary cap to employ him I think?
“The current New Zealand side who, McCullum excepted, are good but not great”.
Anyone who did argue that hasn’t watched enough of NZ in the last year. Williamson has crossed the bridge from ‘promising’ to ‘very good’ and greatness beckons. Vettori is a one-day great. Boult, Southee and Ross Taylor are exceptionally good. Anderson and Milne are the most promising players of their types in world cricket.
Yes, McCullum has them playing aggressively but attacking cricket without the talent to back it up backfires pretty quickly.
I agree the NZ side have talent but they are not greats of the game. Not yet anyway. I’ve watched them play plenty between the last World Cup and this one. They have gone from a side that was far too reliant on a couple of individuals to a side in which everyone puts their hands up and plays to the best of their ability. They have far more talent and skill than our players and deserve to win the trophy in my opinion.
I stand by my original point that our whole setup needs to be reviewed. It needs to be done soon and there are people who should be looking for alternative employment. I doubt very much it will happen though. Here’s to another decade of mediocrity.
I don’t think he should have to prove himself at all. He was nastily sacked and scapegoated for the ashes when he was one of their best players. If anyone should be playing CC it should be Cook, Broad and Anderson. They should be proving themselves fit and able for selection. Cook should not automatically be Captain, he has already proved he is absolutely incapable of it.
Why hasn’t anyone thought to get to the bottom of this messy saga and ask KP what exactly he was looking at through that window…!? If the answer is satisfactory we should let bygones be bygones.
PS …and what tune was he whistling on the way back to the pavilion in Sydney? If we discover it was God Save The Queen, he should instantly be reinstated as captain.
Think it was “Always look on the bright side of life”
Would I want a fit & in form KP in the team? Well yes. Like any other player if he was subject to the same form and fitness concerns that other players are allegedly subject to.
Whilst the test batting held up well in the latter part of the India series, against mediocre attack, would still think a fit Pietersen would be an asset to the team still. The
Look at other top teams, they all have one or 2 veteran batsman so I don’t see his age as a massive problem, providing he’s fit. That really is it, fit and in form there’s absolutely no reason why a sane person wouldn’t pick him. None whatsoever, oh.
However ultiamtely it’s not really the main problem. As we’ve all said to the point of it almost ceasing to have meaning, the problems are wide ranging; from after promising starts players losing form and confidence almost as soon as they come into the team, to many conflicting vested interests detrimental to the health of the game overal in the county set-up (hello domestic professional sport), a haphazard to stupid approach to getting coverage out behind a paywall and, most importantly, getting players from a wide range of backgrounds to play the game.
Professional cricket in England, is in danger of becoming the sole preserve of pupils from the independent/fee paying school sector. Nothing against those people, if you’re good enough background is of absolutely no consequence but it means we are fishing from a very small pool talent and missing out on getting a different type of mindset into the team which could help.
Can’t help thinking that we’re missing out on some excellent athletes who could make wonderful cricketers because they have no idea about the game and no chance to play it at school.
Getting more kids exposed to and playing cricket needs to be a massive long term priority, in the short term, pick your best fucking players for England and get on with it.
Rant over.
Such is the abysmal quality of the England bowling one must doubt whether the inclusion of Bradman or AB de Villiers in this side would enable it to win matches, let alone KP!
KP is not going to come back because the fix is in. Graves said it is up to the selectors. Which is a Kop out because he knows the selectors have already been nobled by Downton. They don’t have the authority to select KP.
Graves is either I’ll informed or is playing to the gallery. And now the likes of Selvey the slug has effectively warned Graves that he will be judged on just one issue, namely KP. In other words Graves must never alow KP back or the uppity press pack will get their knickers in a twist and turn on the ECB.
It’s all a meaningless. But Selvey has today proved he his only interested in one thing ,KP. He is obsessed by this one issue above all the other problems in cricket.
Mike Selvey appears to be more motivated by his (misjudged) loyalty to Paul Downton.
Selvey has sadly been nothing but a proxy for failure in his journalism in the last year or so. Whether it be as a mouthpiece or apologist, he has seemingly written the unattributed words of Andy Flower, David Saker and now Paul Downton rather than do his job as a cricket journalist.
I’m ambivalent about KP playing for England again – if he would make the team better, then surely he ought to, but that is probably a moot point these days, even with the hobbled mass of under-achievement we are currently saddled with. But the removal of Downton, Peter Moores and even a few “journalists” would make the game and its image in England immeasurably better.
I speak as an outsider, of course. Living in Scotland as I do.
Ouch, I’m now being pre-moderated on the Guardian. Should I be good, or go for an outright ban?
Selvey isn’t really worth it, is he….. touchy wee lamb that he is.
It’s ridiculous. The comments section on the Selvey article looks like Tony Blair’s memos on the Iraq War, such is the level of redaction.
He’s turned himself in to an utter joke. If the Guardian has an ounce of self-awareness he will go the same way as Pringle.
Totally agree to this on the journalism. Selvey has been monstrously poor. Only last week he said that Finn was back, anyone with an ounce of cricket experience can see his action is still poor and run up wrong.
On KP, we are wasting energy thinking about it as he won’t play county cricket.
I cannot describe the seething anger I feel at Selvey’s ;latest article. The contempt he continues to show for so many people makes my blood boil. And it is to the eternal shame of the Guardian that they continue to employ someone who is so utterly biased in favour of one point of view.
It simply reaffirms me in my view that only England’s complete humiliation in all matches over the next 6 to 9 months will see any chance of change. I will be cheering on Bangladesh and Afghanistan more than ever over the next two weeks.
My perspective on this is that it is not really about Pietersen at all – Graves was asked a specific question and gave a direct answer – although there are those who’ll just love another opportunity to put the boot in – rather it is about democratising the team and the set up. This appears to be ‘stage setting’ by Graves with the underlying message to Downton, Moores and Clarke that they had better watch out – they are responsible for the appalling last twelve months of English cricket – something Graves would not want to be associated with. Hanging up Pietersen in front of these guys is like showing them a mirror where they don’t like what they see. It appears to be a clever way of saying ‘watch it’ to them – they are not safe anymore.
Whilst Selvey today has spent time abusing commenters and the guardian has been over-moderating on his behalf again it appears Graves is standing by what he said – not what the ECB have said since -‘positive influence’ my arse. In the grand scheme of things not a lot might change but Graves has certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons. Selvey in defending his mate Downton is arguing that Graves isn’t even in post yet – that didn’t stop Downton popping out to Australia though did it?
As I see it from my side of the world, England cricket sets double standards. While KP has to prove fitness to be considered, did Prior have to? Did Swann of the dodgy elbow have to?
More to the point, it looks like it might have been a good idea to have Anderson and Broad not only prove fitness but to show some ability to bowl as well.
I think the term ‘great’ is overused and ‘world class’ is applied to readily. I scream when Nick Knight and Bumble (though he is a bit more realistic) uses these terms for very ordinary players in the world game.
As for Broad’s comment before the Sri Lanka game that the team would puff their chests out and show what we can do, buggers belief.
Get off your delusional high horse and show some pride!!
I worry when they put Warner in front of a mike. Broad can be equally stupid.
Colin Graves may prove to be the fresh air you appear to need. Good luck.
Vaughan joins the deluge of criticism:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11444686/English-crickets-negative-and-predictable-culture-is-to-blame-for-World-Cup-debacle.html
Whether or not we want Pietersen back is debatable.
What is not is that we want our sense of ambition back.
I see no way to argue with this from Vaughan:
“Sri Lanka must be absolutely cracking themselves with laughter. Alex Hales scored a hundred against them playing conventionally in a Twenty20 game but he was not in the team. James Taylor played brilliantly at No3 in Sri Lanka but came in at six. Then Buttler, who whacked them for a hundred at Lord’s, and is a player they fear and will have spoken about more than any other, came in and faced only 19 balls.”
Like Ian Chappell always says — you should be thinking what would the opposing captain least want? I don’t think any captains would be thinking “Oh hell, I hope they haven’t realised that we lose 1.7 wickets in the power play if they bowl 41% short balls outside off”.
I would appoint KP just for the sheer hell of watching Mike Selvey, Paul Newman and Simon Hughes fulminate in full Daily Mail Rant Mode until they were almost fit to have a coronary.
Hell, I would probably even buy Popcorn and sit back and laugh until I weeed myself!
PS – Did anyone see Ian Herbert’s piece in The Independent today.
Made me smile even for a Monday Morning!
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ian-herbert-peter-moores-must-go-he-should-never-have-been-brought-back-to-fail-again-10078992.html
Looking at Broad and Jimmy’s averages they are history in short format and in fact both may be done all together…KP has to return as he is our only World class talent and should never have been sacked. We need a Boof type character to run the team, selectors who actually know something about modern cricket and a headman who knows about cricket and talent not the workings of a City bank
Blimey Anonymous – talk about putting it in a nutshell!
Can’t comment much about the press as I stopped reading them years ago – quite capable of forming my own opinions. From what I see, I made a sensible decision.
See Lord Canus piece and John Etheridge having a go. He doesn’t like the commentators calling Mr Selvey names such a miscreant and nasty and all that. Now who would say words like that, I ask yer! Anyway it seems to me that these writers do have very fragile egos indeed. They can shell it out without any consideration for the hurt they cause but one must be good gals and boys and accept, without questions, what our ECB luvvies tell us to accept. Is it me or am I seeing the public school/oxbridge bit coming out here? Our betters know best and all the riff raff need to doff our caps at them all and mildly agree. Well this well educated old gal and Cockney retorts: Not on yer life mate.
Think I might tweet this every week. Recent polls have shown that the least trusted professions in UK are:
1. Politicians
2. Journalists
Won’t do the rest ‘cos they’re way behind. Be as abusive as you like to these idiots. I haven’t bought a “newspaper” for years. No problem for me
Annie, as we are “Outside Cricket” they should be able to dismiss us with an imperious wave a la Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey – like that verse in the original “All Things Bright And Beautiful.”
The Rich Man in his castle
The Poor man at his gate
God made them high and lowly
And ordered their Estate
Substitute “Rich Man” For the Cricket Establishment, and “Poor Man” for the likes of us ie. “Outside Cricket” and you see hopefully my point.
James here. Thanks for all your comments. It seems that emotions are still very high and KP has lots of fans on this site.
Your contributions are always appreciated. I wonder whether the response here is representative of fans in general? I know Pietersen has his critics too.
Hello James.
I don’t see the point in saying any more about KP. It’s all been said. I would not have had him back after text-gate and nothing since has caused me to change my mind and that’s the end of it. Others have a different view and they are entitled to it.
I accept Maxie’s point that it’s not about KP the man, it’s about the sacking, but that’s all be said before also. I can’t know the ins and outs of it or the detailed reasons why it was deemed that the team would be better off without him so I cannot comment.
It was badly handled that’s for sure but I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over it. Nothing that I might think or say will make the slightest bit of difference. It would be whistling into the wind and I guess I should have the energy for that but sadly I don’t.
I would love to see England winning again. Something is radically wrong and something needs to change. That change should come from the top but I’m just not sure that berating people or calling them stupid is the most effective way of bringing that about.
I support TFT in all you have tried to do for the betterment of English cricket even if sometimes we are at odds.
“I would not have had him back after text-gate and nothing since has caused me to change my mind and that’s the end of it. ”
I’m genuinely curious: what do you think he did?
Why would you not have him back?
There might have been any reasons why KP felt isolated and aggrieved at the time but sending ‘provocative’ texts to the opposition during a test match was disloyal to captain, team and country and that is my sticking point. I have tried to get over it, but I can’t. I do understand those who think differently about the incident.
But what do you think he said that was so awful?
KP has said himself that the texts were ‘provocative’. It’s the principle of this that matters more than the actual content of the texts.
If you’re insisting on principal, I’m curious whether they’d be any players left, or whether you yourself would still have a job.
The worst that seems to have happened is his boss was behaving like a dick, in a text exchange with a friend his friend said ‘why is your boss such a dick’, and he replied ‘I don’t know, he’s just a dick’.
That’s it. That’s the great crime.
I’d be interested in how many people can honestly claim never to have been rude about their boss or a colleague? Not me, certainly.
If we applied your strictures I doubt there’d be a player left in the side.
I have no idea what KP might have said other than his comment about getting Strauss nicked off which he has admitted to. This was a test match where he was representing England and hopefully doing his best for his team. It was not a rant around the office water cooler. I’m sure I am being overly pernitical about this but I can’t help the way I feel. You are entitled to your alternative view.
Did you also want Broad and Swann excluded from the team for KPGenius?
Nope.
“I have no idea what KP might have said other than his comment about getting Strauss nicked off which he has admitted to”
Where/when did he admit that?
I wasn’t aware he has said anything about what was in the message.Storm in a teacup then and still is.
I can’t recall exactly. What he did say was that he was not giving away any secrets. He was not telling the South Africans how to get Strauss out, because like everybody else they already knew how to do that. I’m content with that explanation but it does more than suggest an of admission that he actually made the nick off comment as accused.
It does no such thing. He specifically denied he ever said anything of the sort.
His version is in his book: he says that one of his friends in the SA team messaged him to congratulate him on his 149 that day. The friend then referred to an incident earlier in the day when Strauss had been deliberately rude to the pair of them at the end of play. He asked why Strauss had to be such a doos?
Pietersen then says the worst he was guilty of was failing to defend Strauss, but he agreed with the sentiment.
No one has ever seen the messages, so unless you have some kind of inside track I’m not sure what you’re basing your beliefs on, other than a dislike of KP and so a willingness to believe anything of him.
Likewise, why do you want KP excluded from the team for that, but you’re fine with Broad using twitter to mock his teammate and humiliate him in public?
I do not dislike KP. He seems like a good family man but in a general way he is completely immaterial to me. I would not want him in any team of mine but I would never call for anyone to be either included or excluded from the England cricket team because of the way that I feel. That is up to the ECB and the selectors. It is their responsibly and their agenda.
Saying you wouldn’t have had him back, you wouldn’t have him in any team of yours etc, is just the same as saying he should have been excluded.
Saying you don’t base that on your personal dislike of him doesn’t seem to accord with your willingness to believe rumours which aren’t true and your unwillingness to accept anything to the contrary.
Saying that I would not have had Pietersen back after text-gate is my own view. I would not seek to impose that view on anyone else which I why I seldom have much to say on the matter unless I’m asked for my opinion.
And what would your own view be on having Broad in the side after KP Genius?
I don’t have any particular view on the matter. There are many spoof twitter accounts and I paid little attention to it at the time. I have no idea who was actually responsible for it.
It has since become apparent that Broad’s best friend created the account, and he boated that Broad and other England players were using it.
Knowing that England players were betraying their teammate by using private information to publicly humiliate him, this must give you issues given your requirement to trust the players in your team?
I can’t comment on this because I know so little about it. I have no idea as to the nature and source of this leaked ‘private information’, how deep the humiliation went, or how reliable or not Broad’s friend might be. I really don’t know enough to comment.
Interesting.
You know almost nothing about what went on between KP and his friend – no one’s ever seen the messages or can contradict what he says they contained – yet you’re prepared to believe all sorts of things about him and wouldn’t have him in your side as untrustworthy, a betrayer. But on the other hand there’s very clear evidence of what Broad and the others did but, you know, couldn’t comment, don’t know much about it, sure there wasn’t anything in it, do we really know it was Broad anyway, wouldn’t like to give an opinion..by an outrageous coincidence exactly the same view the ECB took.
But you don’t dislike KP..
Like I have said many times before I don’t hate KP. I am simply not interested in him. If the selectors wish to select him, they can do that, if they wish to deselect him, they can do that too. I have continued to answer your questions because I would prefer not to be rude but I have have nothing more to say.
Trouble is Jenny you seem to be in denial about everything pro KP and blinkered about everything anti KP. You may not be interested in the KP Genius twitter account but that goes to heart about why he felt so much mistrust.
You also say that you wouldn’t select him because you don’t trust him but this is basically what the ECB are saying and NOT basing it on form. That should be the only criteria a player should be selected on not weather you like/trust him. If the ECB came out last Feb and said we are going to drop KP and look for new talent then I may not have agreed with them but I couldn’t have argued too hard when he failed to play county cricket last season.
As far as the blinkers are concerned you could say the same for both sides. Excuses are found for every unfortunate aspect of Kevin Pietersens behaviour. I can see two sides of the selection argument but we don’t know how deep the mistrust goes. I can’t pretend to be impartial and unblinkered but I can’t help the way I feel. I was asked for my opinion and I gave it.
He was only talking with his friends.Not the enemy as the media has always run the story.We don’t know what he said probably don’t want too.Young men tend to use bad language when they are upset.Have you never talked to a friend about someone else when you were upset.? I don’t believe he did anything wrong, stupid maybe but it was supposed to be private.I can’t understand why you think it was all do bad.
He has said that his texts were ‘provocative’. Kevin Pietersen was selected to represent and play for the Engkand cricket team in a test match. The those texts were delivered to our South African opponents during the game. To my mind there are some things that you don’t do. That is one of them.
It wasn’t Dunkirk. He was having a chat with one of his mates during a cricket match. No one died.
No one died, I woukdnt have had him court marshalled, I just don’t want him in my team.
Sorry about the spelling!
He played 104 Tests. I think it was rather more his team than either yours or mine.
Quite right.
Why would you not want him in your team Jenny? Specific reason please just to be sure
Because I could never trust him.
Although a huge KP fan I don’t think this is the key point. Main problem is the ECB, its selection of players in general plus the incompetent selection of the present manager. The whole direction of the team is wrong, strategy is out the window which I guess was what KP was looking for!
I know this is about the ECB and how they manage players but this lot would be spitting feathers if they had to manage Botham in his pomp. Anyone remember his hook up with David English was it? His ban for admitting smoking Cannabis and so on.
Grumpy Bob? Is that you …. What’s Charles Colville like off camera? ;-)